Blue Angel (Canados 70s) Rebuild thread

[RobWales]

New application for the hi lo platform........BRILLIANT!

Think you might just have set a new trend there Bart, couple of cold beer pumps and an assortment of optics should just about finish the look.......lol

Maybe a shiney pole and some scantily clad........!

Enjoy the season

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

Happy birthday - what a great surprise, well done Elly!

Cheers
Jimmy

 

[ACE]

Like the thinking on the hi/Lo platform VERY creative ) hope you enjoyed your birthday surprise sounds like fun was had !

 

[rbcoomer]

Great job.

I have to say that the boat looks fantastic and the alterations look like they were always meant to be part of the original design! You must be very pleased with the end result and if my little project finishes up half as good, I'll be very happy. Thanks for sharing and a belated 'happy birthday!'...

 

[BartW]

so we will definitely fix a forum meet at an anchorage some time early summer. Prhaps Red Dot Bay in Porquerolles.

for a forum meet on red dot bay
how about sunday 1 july ?
or eventually from saturday evening 30june, to show me the UW lights in action,
you never know you could seduce me to fit them on BA

 

[Nick_H]

All boat (unfortunately no pics from the complete ship) was covered with yellow balloons (they know I hate yellow …. )

How old are you?

By the way, that's not a new application for the hi-lo platform, it's the MAIN application!

 

[BartW]

Osmotech in the Hamble recently retrofitted Sleipner fin stabs (with at anchor function) to a finished new Fairline Sq78, and it all worked well.

any idea of the price for that retrofit ?
(ballpark figure)
swmbo recently was on a fin stabilised boat, and now she wants them, but must also work at rest

Ballpark £85k+tax. The hardware is ballpark 50+tax, but the installation can be very big. It depends on how much furniture rebuild is needed and whether a hull frame needs to be cut out and then the hull reinforced
They are truly awesome things though. Elly is right. I will not be without them and have specced on new boat of course

mmm interesting, (I had a figure of 150keuro in my mind)
If a similar method like the installation of the platform; direct communication with the factory, and installation by “my” guy’s would be possible,
And all the knowledge from experienced users on here,
this idea could even become real,
All depending on the situation / details of BA’s hull obviously.

 

[MapisM]

Bart, just FYI: Elly told me that sometimes she's annoyed also by the a/p induced costant small rolling, even in flat sea. And I granted her that the stabs should be able to smooth that out completely.
But make no mistakes, such effect shouldn't be there anyway, and even if the stabs would keep the boat horizontal, "behind the scenes" the rudders would continue to work too much.
I'm still confident that both the "zig-zag" and the rolling could disappear with a different a/p regulation.
We'll have to look at that during the diving cruise, unless you've been able to fix it before in the meantime.

 

[jfm]

At least in the case of Sleipner, I think you could just buy the hardware and have them installed by your guys. And you can install much of the hardware (computer, cabling, dashboard control) yourself Bart. Senior guys at Sleipner would be happy to give advice - they are all keen boat owners and boaters and nice people to work with. Then maybe you can do this job for €85k euro? Including zero speed function

You need to position the stabs correctly fore-aft. Not too far forward. Even if that makes for more work with furniture etc

I'd love to give you a proper test on my boat in a proper big sea but the plan is to hand her over to new owners ~30 June so it is unlikely to happen I'm afraid

They are truly amazing in conditions like below - you would decide you want them on BA within about 5 mins of running in these sorts of seas. I could have run like that all day at 20kts

 

[jfm]

Bart
Quick reminder on the hardware...

 

[BartW]

I'm still confident that both the "zig-zag" and the rolling could disappear with a different a/p regulation.
We'll have to look at that during the diving cruise, unless you've been able to fix it before in the meantime.

completely agree with you on that MapisM,
that the zig zag and rolling problem should be cured with a AP adjustment,
and not by a Stab compensation.
(will bring up the AP adjustment thread when appropriate)

actually the main reason (for us) for the stabs would be at anchor,
sometimes when anchored even a small swell is enoying for guests, and some of them get sick from that.

I don't fancy much cruising in conditions like in the film posted by Jfm, but having that ability for urgent passages, or in occasional unexpected bad weather, is obviously a extra premium.

re your pref for Gyro stab system,
from a planing boat efficiency point of vieuw I agree with you, but I would hate the 1m3 space lost in the center of the engine room (there is space dough), thats my main reason for ignoring a gyro solution.

and I believe that some time back we agreed that efficiency wise, a big planing boat isn't rational anyway, even without stabs

 

[jfm]

I don't fancy much cruising in conditions like in the film posted by Jfm,

But with stabs you would BartW. So long as the waves are not hitting your bow, with stabs the wind no longer matters. I did 30nm in those seas and could easily have done 130nm. There was 30kts of true wind on my beam but it might as well have been 10kts. I was doing 23knots for some of that trip. But you only have about 220degrees of the compass rose to play with - once you have waves much ahead of your beam no stabs will save you!

I would hate the 1m3 space lost in the center of the engine room (there is space dough), thats my main reason for ignoring a gyro solution

Yup, agreed, but I think on a machine as big as BA you need 2x seakeeper 8000s and that is too much to fit, even on a ship like BA. On NickH's princess 57, the one seakeepr 8000 feels just right so I'm confident you would need 2. On Nick's boat the gyro works hard - it uses the full precession stroke, so I would not say the 8000 is too much for princess 57. It's just about perfectly right (and very very impressive; as we flicked it instantly on/off with the dashboard switch the performance of the gyro could be felt very much). Princess 57 is probably 28 tonnes loaded; BA is ~70tonnes

 

[BartW]

But with stabs you would BartW. So long as the waves are not hitting your bow, with stabs the wind no longer matters. I did 30nm in those seas and could easily have done 130nm. There was 30kts of true wind on my beam but it might as well have been 10kts. I was doing 23knots for some of that trip. But you only have about 220degrees of the compass rose to play with - once you have waves much ahead of your beam no stabs will save you!

Summer Last year , during the Rome – Marseille trip,
Early departure leaving Portoferraio at 6am, heading towards Livorno, all kids and swmbo still sleeping, there was no wind, but a big swell , very long waves completely perpendicular on our beam, which was very annoying, and woke up all guests.
I even had to tack left and right for a while to make the ride more comfortable,
nevertheless the guests didn’t want me to cruise anymore while they were sleeping for the rest of the summer.
Stabs would have been very usefull then.

Princess 57 is probably 28 tonnes loaded; BA is ~70tonnes

We still don’t know the exact weight of BA, but believe now (according your suggestion) that she’s more towards 60T in stead of 70T.
The original reg. paper has “hand written“ 64,5T weight on it,
Alfonse believes that this is weighed fully loaded with fuel (5500l) and water (1200l)
So a average weight inclusive all retrofitted extra’s is probably around or slightly over 60T.
(but still double of a P57)

 

[MapisM]

You need to position the stabs correctly fore-aft.

Absolutely.
Bart, out of curiosity, do you have a pic of BA on the hard where you can mark the approximate position of the e/r bulkhead?
If you'll decide to go for fins, I'd try to put them in the e/r, rather than in the master cabin.
But that depends on how far forward the e/r goes.

 

[jfm]

Absolutely.
Bart, out of curiosity, do you have a pic of BA on the hard where you can mark the approximate position of the e/r bulkhead?
If you'll decide to go for fins, I'd try to put them in the e/r, rather than in the master cabin.
But that depends on how far forward the e/r goes.

I see your logic MapisM, but there are always 2 sides to the coin (boating= compromising!). The e/r is so full of machinery that is is usually much easier to find space and good service/inspection access in the master cabin.

It would be good to see a drawing though. However I think the e/r to master cabin bulkhead on BA is a long way aft - more so than my boat

On Princess 72 they put them in e/r under the wing fuel tanks, can you believe? No thanks!

 

[BartW]

Absolutely.
Bart, out of curiosity, do you have a pic of BA on the hard where you can mark the approximate position of the e/r bulkhead?
If you'll decide to go for fins, I'd try to put them in the e/r, rather than in the master cabin.
But that depends on how far forward the e/r goes.

Here a pic with the position of the e/r bulkhead (aproximately)

There are full beam fuel tanks,
Behind these are wing water tanks, and extra wing fuel tanks,
very limited space between engines and wing tanks :

but the relative position on Match is more or less the same is in my master cabin bathroom / dressing room.
(not sure about weight distribution in a C70 dough)

SB side:

and dressing room on P side

if the position here is right,(weight distribution wise) In believe its doable

 

[jfm]

Yup, under the floor in bathroom/dressing room makes much sense for easy install and service/checks. Plus easy access to make the GRP reinforcement of the hull.
The fins would be roughly as below, which looks/feels same as mine (bottom pic). The two pics are close to perfect scale and the transoms are in line! You want to avoid having the fins too far forward else they can try to lift the bow but I'd say your boat with red square below is slightly better than mine on that point, and i have no problems with them being too far forward.

 

[Pinnacle]

Bart

You need to get some new loo roll!!

 

[BartW]

You need to get some new loo roll

for sure I need a goed stock by the end of september when all these *****'s come onboard

 

[Pinnacle]