Blue Angel (Canados 70s) Rebuild thread

[MapisM]

This was MapisM suggestion, a connection for the water hose, so that our water distribution has real fresh and drinkable water, we can make coffee with water from the tap

But we added a pression stabilizer and a one way valve

Bart &/or MM, care to explain how that works? I vaguely remember somewhere MM saying something about it and how you cannot flood and sink your boat using this system but I've lost it.

It's actually easier than it might look, V.
Just think of how the typical onboard fresh water system is built: there's basically one connection to the tank, and a pump which keeps the whole circuit under pressure.
If you connect to any point of the circuit an external hose, connected to the dock, the external pressure is practically doing the same job which is normally done by the pump.
Job done, you can turn the pump off and enjoy fresh water without using the tank.

The pression stabilizer which Bart installed makes sense whenever the pressure of dock fresh water line is too high, but in my boat I didn't fit any, and never had any problem.
In my experience, you're more likely to have a too low pressure from the dock, rather than too high...

Re. the non-return valve, I fitted it between the tank connection and the pump, to stop water pressure from going backwards to the tank and continuously fill them (which in turn, after they're filled, would create a constant leak overboard from the overfill line).
Alternatively, if you want to use the dock line not only for fresh water distribution, but also to refill the tank, you might want to fit a manual valve instead (open it to refill the tank, close it to use the dock fresh water).
But TBH, I'm in doubt on the logic of the non-return valve in Bart's installation. It looks like he fitted it just after the dock connection, and if that is the case I can't understand why.
Bart, care to tell us more?

With regard to safety instead, I'm afraid that in theory this system can indeed sink the boat. If the dock connection is open, and there's a leak anywhere in the system, nothing would stop water from filling the boat.
Otoh, I calculated that my pumps would be able to cope with such flow. Besides, I have a manual valve onboard where the dock hose is attached, which I close whenever I'm leaving the boat for some time.
I can live with that, I feel that the risk of hitting a rock whenever you're out there is way higher...

 

[alt]

Gentleman, once again, ye have struck with a query I was about to ask regarding my new little boat...

My Zaffiro 34 comes with a 'pressure system' - It is basically exactly what Bart has installed in illustrated pictures above.

As water points are scare in my locality, I wouldn't dare hog a a line, but it'd handy to know the option is there.

So i've just learned a new negative regarding slightly bigger boats.... so much more to learn

 

[jfm]

It's But TBH, I'm in doubt on the logic of the non-return valve in Bart's installation. It looks like he fitted it just after the dock connection, and if that is the case I can't understand why.
Bart, care to tell us more?

I'm confused too. It looks like its function is to stop Bart's onboard Canados pump supplying water from his tanks to the townspeople of Toulon

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Bart &/or MM, care to explain how that works? I vaguely remember somewhere MM saying something about it and how you cannot flood and sink your boat using this system but I've lost it.

I've got a freshwater connection on my boat but I never use it as I can't really understand the logic. Since mobos tend to use a lot of water, the contents of the water tank are used and refilled every few days which IMHO ensures that bacteria will not develop. On the other hand, if you use the freshwater connection all the time in a marina, the water tank will be used and refilled far less so the water in the tank will stand for much longer giving more chance of bacteria developing. Anyway, who's to say that the water coming out of the marina supply is always cleaner than what you already have in your tank?

 

[BartW]

The pression stabilizer which Bart installed makes sense whenever the pressure of dock fresh water line is too high, but in my boat I didn't fit any, and never had any problem.
In my experience, you're more likely to have a too low pressure from the dock, rather than too high...

TBH, I'm in doubt on the logic of the non-return valve in Bart's installation. It looks like he fitted it just after the dock connection, and if that is the case I can't understand why.
Bart, care to tell us more?

MapisM I agree with you on both points,
actually I intended to fit these connections myself during one of my stay's, but never had the opportunity, the locker and the rear bench were only fitted in position during the last week of the works.

And then I would have done it as simple as you discribe.

the stabiliser they fitted without me asking, they had sort of a "make it perfect" attitude,(or extra safety)
and agree with you that you rather have too low water pressure instead of too high from the dock.

the non return valve, they have put this instead of a manual valve,
there was no room for a valve left in the locker.
Without the non return valve, in the unlikely event that you switch on accidently your boat water pump, you might empty your water tank in the dock feed.
But again I would have done without.


moreover;
although I explained this many times to the workers, that I wanted to have TWO hose connections,
- one for the dock feed,
- one for the hose for cleaning and rinsing the deck,

the silly situation is now;
that I can't use the new hose connection fur usage on deck,
wich I need sometimes while not in a marine
fe on the fuel dock to wet the deck floor below the fuel inlets
or on hot sunny day on anker, to rinse the deck or clean the dingy, etc...

so despite the "clever" look of this, it still needs some work

 

[BartW]

I've got a freshwater connection on my boat but I never use it as I can't really understand the logic. Since mobos tend to use a lot of water, the contents of the water tank are used and refilled every few days which IMHO ensures that bacteria will not develop. On the other hand, if you use the freshwater connection all the time in a marina, the water tank will be used and refilled far less so the water in the tank will stand for much longer giving more chance of bacteria developing. Anyway, who's to say that the water coming out of the marina supply is always cleaner than what you already have in your tank?

Mike,
yes we use quite a lot of freshwater on the boat,
and although the water from the tank doesnt smell nor taste bad, we never drink from it, even last summer when the boat was used for a longer period,
we didn't drink from the tap, so had to carry lots of bottles evian...
thats why

does anybody else drink water from the tank ?

still now when we go out, we use quite a lot of water,
I'm alway's surprised about how much we use
so i'm sure that the tank (1200l) is rinsed regulary.

by the way,
our retro fitted deck toilet (now Tecma)
the one thats used the most,
has the water feed from the fresh water tank, we didn't know this, as all other toilets are feed from a seawater pump.

So its good to know that we have toilets for everybody's taste

I'm not sure if you know,
but Croatia is known to have very good quality water from the tap !
and in the not too crowded places, water from the tap has a "fresh" temperature (temperature from the well)

 

[BartW]

Rafiki uses a series of bungy attachments to fix and tension her rear canopy. Sorry, don't have any pics handy. This appears very wind and weather resistant.

yes thats the most obvious solution,
initially I was hesitating to place attachements, they could damage the fenders,
but then I realised that the tenders will never be that high.

on a neighbour boat (Beneteau trawler) I saw a nice looking system with straps, but I'm afraid its not a "quick" one to fit,
will post pics later.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

does anybody else drink water from the tank ?

I do except when we were moored in N Mallorca where we were advised not to in the summer months. In actual fact you can't avoid drinking it because for sure you wash fish, vegetables, fruits and salads with tap water in the galley

by the way,
our retro fitted deck toilet (now Tecma)
the one thats used the most,
has the water feed from the fresh water tank, we didn't know this, as all other toilets are feed from a seawater pump.

You'll be glad that you have freshwater flushed toilets because seawater flushed toilets tend to smell if they are not used for a few days. We've had Tecma toilets on 3 boats now and IMHO they are excellent

I'm not sure if you know,
but Croatia is known to have very good quality water from the tap !
and in the not too crowded places, water from the tap has a "fresh" temperature (temperature from the well)

Yes I know, I don't have any issue drinking tap water in Croatia. All that rain has one benefit at least

 

[MapisM]

Since mobos tend to use a lot of water, the contents of the water tank are used and refilled every few days

Doh! It's exactly because a lot of water is used, that it's convenient not to have to refill the tank every few days...
...and arguably, this is rather due to swmbos than to mobos as such, but that's a different matter altogether!

 

[MapisM]

Without the non return valve, in the unlikely event that you switch on accidently your boat water pump, you might empty your water tank in the dock feed.

Aha! Now I see the train of thought of the guys in Rome who installed the non return valve.
Indeed, when you detach the dock hose and use the internal pump, you NEED a way to close the dock connection, otherwise you would empty your tank.

But that's where I fitted a manual valve - the one I previously mentioned. Reasons for this:
1) the valve does the same job of the non-return valve, when the dock hose is not connected (though of course you must close it manually), and most important...
2) ...the valve is an additional safety feature when leaving the boat for some time, but without wanting to disconnect the dock hose.
Of course, you could also close the valve on the dock supply, but that remains exposed to whoever thinks that opening it again could be a good idea.

One caveat is that this valve should be fitted in a convenient position.
In my boat, I installed it under the cover of the aft seats, near the passerelle, so it's completely hidden but at the same time easy to reach before leaving the boat.

 

[MapisM]

My Zaffiro 34 comes with a 'pressure system' - It is basically exactly what Bart has installed in illustrated pictures above.

Yep, Cranchi is one of the (very) few builders who install that as a standard.
I never understood why they don't use a standard hose connection, though.
You'd better try to not loose the specific adaptor, that's not something you would find in any chandler.
Been there, done that...

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Doh! It's exactly because a lot of water is used, that it's convenient not to have to refill the tank every few days...

Thats stating the bleedin' obvious But it does mean that the water that is already in the tank is going to stagnate there a lot longer and IMHO thats not a good thing

 

[MapisM]

it does mean that the water that is already in the tank is going to stagnate there a lot longer and IMHO thats not a good thing

Agreed Mike, but in summertime the "refresh rate" (so to speak) of the tank is pretty high anyway.
I rarely spend more than a couple of days without leaving the dock, even if just for a swim somewhere around the island, and before leaving I usually refill the tank (at least partially - I've got 1.5 cubic meter of tank, and I never use more than one third of that for a daily usage, even with guests onboard).
Upon return, I don't empty it completely, but otoh I also wait to refill it till just before the next trip.
I agree that in principle I wouldn't leave the same water in the tank for a long time.

 

[petem]

I've got a freshwater connection on my boat but I never use it as I can't really understand the logic. Since mobos tend to use a lot of water, the contents of the water tank are used and refilled every few days which IMHO ensures that bacteria will not develop. On the other hand, if you use the freshwater connection all the time in a marina, the water tank will be used and refilled far less so the water in the tank will stand for much longer giving more chance of bacteria developing. Anyway, who's to say that the water coming out of the marina supply is always cleaner than what you already have in your tank?

I thought your water tasted of diesel!

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

I thought your water tasted of diesel!

Nah, my diesel tastes of water

 

[BartW]

When I had smaller boats (25ft) I used to spend a lot of time personalising it, and it paid off.

thats what I did with all my boats so far,
perhaps that's what I like about owning a boat;
while others, do nothing, or sip their G&T, or read books, or enjoy the bay babes or ..... whatever,
I'm alway's thinking about the next modification or improvement

 

[BartW]

me wants sunbrella! they do look the biz. mind sharing the colour code plz Bart?

the outside cushions are Charcoal 3705

and the inside sofa is Sooty 3758

scroll down, click on the pic of the fabric, and you can see the texture
http://www.dickson-constant.com/nl/NL/3/technische-stof/30/solids-stripes

the first type was in my mind from even before we bought the boat (seen at the Belgium Boat show in 2010)
the second model (for the inside furniture) was chosen just at the last moment before finalising the order,
because it looks at bit more classy and feels a bit softer then the first.

the cushions from the foldable cockpit chairs are old ones from home, that we don't need anymore, chairs are broken,
but these are coincidently almost exactly the same as the Sunbrella Charcoal.

 

[vas]

thanks for the explanation, does make sense.
I'll probably go for the manual valve, so that you know you've missed something once you disconnect

Mi

does anybody else drink water from the tank ?

I'm planning to!

I did mention it before I'll say it again, it's easy, safe and cheap.

IF you have a watermaker, just get an expansion tank of 30-40lt and when the watermaker works, make sure it fills this up as well, so the water there is clean and OK for 3-4days to drink.
If you don't have a watermaker, just get a home reverse osmosis filter for 250euro, fit it in the bilge, expansion tank under the galley sink, extra faucet in sink, job done.
If your water is generally okish, you can skip the ro setup and just use a UV sterilisation system for 100or so euro. Catch is it needs current, the other options dont

cheers

V.

 

[alt]

Yep, Cranchi is one of the (very) few builders who install that as a standard.
I never understood why they don't use a standard hose connection, though.
You'd better try to not loose the specific adaptor, that's not something you would find in any chandler.
Been there, done that...

<thread drift>
Don't say that! From what i've seen, it looks like there is a male fittiment to screw into the connector on the boat! It's not a worry because we use the tank... BUT....

 

[BartW]

New Decoration

some time back, I had invited a few friends to celebrate my birthday on the boat on may27th.
they agreed to be there for the weekend.
In order to prepare things for their arrival, Elly and Myself took the airplane last Friday morning,


BUT when we arrived on the boat I found this:

Passerelle was out, door unlocked, and many shoes in the cupboard.
Upstairs on the FB I found this:

All boat (unfortunately no pics from the complete ship) was covered with yellow balloons (they know I hate yellow …. )

They tried to change the name of the boat, and they even considered painting boat yellow, ….yukes


Then the drinking could start, and eating all food that my hooligan friends prepared the day before.
They had arranged with Elly for their arrival on board on Thursday, without me knowing about it.
I should have known this as for the first time ever, Elly was really interested how to switch on / off all the electric systems on board the weekend before last.


On Saturday we went out to Red Dot Bay
to check the new systems;

And they found a new application for the new hi lo platform:

The new transom door was perfect for the bar tender;

This is what was left on their departure on Sunday ;

I’m not going to bore you with more pics from the event, too much thread drift, and absolutely non boaty


Had many positive comments on the rebuild, also from the people who saw the mods in real flesh, so we are now ready for the new season.
For now this is the end of the rebuild tread. Many thanks to all contributors for idea's, advice and encouragements !
much apriciated !!!




We still have some items on the wish list, and might continue with a few jobs during summer , to keep me bussy,

here a brief summery;

1) Replacing the brass halogen spots inside;
We tested different models of the Quick Marine Led lights, and
despite the fact that I can get them at dealer conditions through my business, they don’t appeal;
We tested models; Nikita, Kay, Yoko and Chiara,
and different colors,

-“Daylight” looks too bright, (which I quite like in the new look) but human skin looks as if you are sick
-“Warm white” looks green to me

But the most worrying thing is that the colors from the first delivery (old stock at the distributor) where different from the new recent delivery, so no color consistency…
Actually the first delivery (old stock) had a nicer “daylight” color then the new

tests to be continued, I must get rid of the brass frames !!!


2) Fresh up the crew cabin,
As this cabin has been habited the most, crew permanently living in there,
This cabin looks too much warn.
From time to time this cabin will be used by guests, and therefore we would like to give a thorough refresh.
Our idea was to soft sand all wood veneer , and give it one or more layers of “white” varnish

Any “fresh” idea’s are welcome !

Here some pictures;

3) Adding two bunk beds in the VIP cabin, perfectly doable, (plan for next winter)

4) Adding a book shelf in the saloon

5) Some SS metal works:
removable platform side rails
side rails along the engines in the E/R,
foldable dive ladder ,

6) And many small minor jobs….

list will be growing for sure