Biscay with a Bilge Keeler?

Went to La Coruna on a 31 foot Westerly Pentland (from Jersey) a few years back mind you, I am pretty sure that had B/K's - 2 days of flat calm and we motored, 3rd day it blew like a c#nt. Never been more glad to get into a port before or since, absolutely knackered as we were 2 handed (and by then I did not have a great deal of faith in the Skippers Navigational ability, and he not much in my sailing! - so meant neither of us were getting much rest - I came back by train /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif)

Too lazy to Google a Riveria, but from memory isn't she bigger than 30 odd foot?, if so more than capable of doing the passage, including non-stop (her being in good condition etc etc), For comforts sake I would go for a minimum of 3 crew, pref 4 - but doable with 2, if you trust the other person! To be prudent I would plan (and eqipe the boat) for very cr#p weather and just be pleased if you don't get it.
 
So what's special about a bilge-keeler? The pros and cons of different keel types have been argued in these columns many times I'm sure - and multihulls too!

The Riviera is 10.5m LOA and quite large enough for such a trip IF well found. As for Biscay, that's wide, exposed and can be frightening. It can be a piece of cake too. Only recently someone asked What's the fuss all about? AFTER he'd come thro the Raz!

If it's advice in planning an offshore passage that you require then the keels matter far less than your experience. Do tell us more.
 
I will be doing trip S.Devon-La Corunna-La Rochelle-S.Devon as training for Eventual passage S.Devon-Barcelona.
Not been West of Line Bishop Rock-Brest.
I will be Skippering newly acquired Westerly Typhoon under guidance of Yachtmaster Ocean Qualified friend. He is prepared to act as Flottilla leader if other Club boats wish to join in.
Riviera owner is thinking hard, just wanted to have input from those who have done it, not the armchair experts.
 
As a Riviera bilge keel owner, I have viewed this thread with interest. I have no worries about the boat's abilities to do this having sailed round the coasts of Scotland and Ireland in some heavy winds. The underwater configuration doesn't make much difference and the hull itself is the same as the Seahawk and Oceanquest and they have done long ocean passages.

The open layout of the saloon makes her not quite so user friendly when it's rough. Similarly, there are no real sea-berths as such although you could wedge yourself into position in the aft cabin.

My only concern would be about the windows and their susceptibility to big breaking waves. I was told by a Westerly salesman that he watched the test when they plonked a 6 ton weight on the coachroof and were all convinced the windows would explode but it passed with flying colours. Some form of storm board may be in order.

All in all, I would go for it
 
Met Riviera Magic, a Westerly Riviera, way down in Biscay this summer. They were down near Belle Ile when we met them; I don't remember how far south they had been. But there is no reason why you couldn't get down to la Corunna. It is rounding the headland (Finisterre) where the bad stuff seems to be concentrated. From my limited experience of going down and back again.

A good long-range weather forecast will acquaint you of other bad systems coming in, so you could, for example sail down the coast to La Rochelle, or a little bit further down, and then do a 2-or 3- day trip for the last bit when you can expect some reasonable conditions.

Or at least that is how I intend to do it next time! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Ships are Blige Keelers .....

True ... if you see a ship in Dry-Dock - there is a bilge rail welded to the hull.

Back to yots .... why not - its a good boat ...
 
I am in the process of buying a riviera and would like to speak to any owners who would be willing to share there knowledge with me I have not used this forum before so dont know weather this is the right place or would PM be better
 
Hello Kevin Welcome to the assylum /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif If I were you I would put a new post on scuttlebut headed"Advice on Westerly Riviera" or similar. Any Riviera owners wont be able to resist having a look and hopefully answering questions. Im sure someone will also direct you to the Westerly owners association.
 
Armchair Expert questions Flotilla Leader

----
edit: the original post asked for "not armchair experts" and mentioned that one of his crew was "oceanmaster" and had volunteered to be flotilla leader...but has since been edited....but i've left my post as is...
-----

"Armchair expert eh? That's me, at least insofar as boat had armchairs and sofas in biscay.

I wd definitely look to find nice weather and go direct from devon out past ushant to lacoruna if at all possible - the upswell at continental shelf noticeable and depending on the weather you can find yourself around that zone for quite some time. Also the tougher (and needless to get to la coruna) navigation turns up after long passage x-channel.

Sepretly, er I wouldn't go with a flotilla of maybe/maybe-not other boats, really? Especially not someone who is looking for go/don't go advice off a forum? He needs to provide the blood and guts to make the trip really? Well, you know what i mean.

Flots also multiply the chances of a mechanical problem to the point of (eventually) guaranteeing there will be one.

Um...and what exactly is the function of "flotilla leader" offshore? Skipper is responsible for this boat and this crew - not that one over there. Does it mean the flot skipper will feel more compelled than normal to turn back and help, even with no mayday, frinstance? Or will feel he should when others go - when he wouldn't? Hm. If it gets dodgy, I skipper/crew us in this boat, other boats are other boats and can only summon help with mayday?

Of course, as a social thing twd be nice to arrange meet-up, go approximately together, perhaps first one in says therwillbe along etc etc.... "Flotilla Leader" tho? Hm. Do others get to blame him a bit for a rough crossing? well, you get the point.

Er also from what you say - an oceanmaster who isn't skipper - but yet *is* flot leader? How's that then? If someone has top ideas and oodles of experience that's great, happens a lot. But he ain't skipper and certainly not anything at all (officially) to that other boat except v helpful chap whose advice you can take or not take, really? Like this and any other external advicem i suppose.
 
Black Dog with Black Dog?

um, dya mean - he's not here much cos i responded that perhaps i wdn't do exactly as he was proposing? Do we all have to agree with everything?

ooh yes, lakesailor, I fully agree with your idea of doing the atlantic in a dinghy, and from your proposed options my advice is that *cheddar* would be the best choice for the cheese sandwiches.
 
Re: TCM loves TCM

[ QUOTE ]
um, dya mean - he's not here much cos i responded that perhaps i wdn't do exactly as he was proposing? Do we all have to agree with everything?

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course not.

But you were not disagreeing with Eise, you raised your own scenario from the initial question and then proceeded to demolish it with the "force" of your own argument........fun for you perhaps but more of a PITA for many to bother with........
 
Misery police

Pah balderdash.

His original proposal was peculiar and warranted comment. If you think I demolished it , well, that's fine. Sometimes it is fine demolishing stuff a bit, though i did carefully soften it.

Having a YM on board almost as tho an item of safety equipment (Q: "Does the skipper know what he's doing? A: nope, but we've hired some chappie with a nice certificate, tick) - but the YM won't be skipper ... yet somehow s/he *will* be "flotilla leader" of other boats...and yet the original poster willl be newbie skipper and everyone follows him. Really? At what point do slightly numpty ideas *not* get a teeny bit of demolishing?

Anyway, anyone can demolish anything verbally hereabouts, it's just some words, and so provide they obey the rules, and not personally attack, it's ok. Whereas by contrast it's not really ok to uses titles like "tcm loves tcm" persoanl stuff - you should attack the argument not the person, see? Although in this case it's actually fine, cos as any normal person should do, I think i'm not at all bad, really, and it would seem to be much more fun to be in my skin than some other people's, ahem.

My post was a good deal lighter than that his slightly-sneery "not armchair experts" remark, and "other club members welcome" in his original. Jeez! Or is that why you reckon i should have been all nice and doffed my cap? Sorry. Also i note he edited out those bits, but later.

Look, ok, at least i changd the word "bollox" to "balderdash" at the start of this post to make it nicer. Although I've er gorn and demolished the nice effect of that as well. So, sorry all for being a slight git. ok?

Also sorry in advance for my bursting out loud laughing at anyone who rushes up to me in a west country marina and annouces he's a Yachtmaster, Assistant Skipper and Flotilla Leader of the Ooer Biscay Scaredycat Sailing Club and am i part of his group?...
 
Re: Misery

So did I, and rightly.
Its perfickly ok for getting slightly gittish tcm to come along and offer a different opinion and spilling the tea over aunt mauds best lace tablecloth.
I happen to think that he has made some very valid comments, but praps his literary style and bluff northern mental robustness does not make his point sound serious, which I believe it is.
If someone had a conversation with me which included some of the statements above, I would advise against contemplating such a journey until you have learned how the basic responsibility thing pans out. A YM is no giuantee of anything and does not confer any status, nor is it likely to help in dodgy weather, as chances are the boats would get split up. Individually, you are all masters under god, and should remain wholly responsible for you, your crew and the craft. If you cant meet that basic standard, then dont go. If you wish to experience it, then go as crew with someone else first, or just plain keep practising.
Alternatively, coastal hop all the way down, no shame in that. In fact probably preferable as you have greater opportunity to stay out of weather, keep SWMBO happy and retain the boat budget for next year.

Value diversity, its generally thought provoking.
 
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