Birchwood vs Princess?

[goneboating]

Hi,

We are looking to move up from our current small single engine boat to a larger twin with flybridge. We are looking in the range of 40 - 45 ft, and particularly like the Princess 415 and 45, but have also looked at a Birchwood TS44, which we found to have a nice layout and design.

Just wondering if anyone has any views about the relative build qualities, I have heard that early Birchwoods may not have been quite up to the standards of the Princesses? All the boats we are looking at are approx 15 years old...

Any views on how good Birchwood hull shapes are in terms of seakeeping, I understand that the Princess 45 is very well respected in this area?

Many thanks



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[adarcy]

Princess definitely IMHO
(but then everyone is going to expect me to say that as we have a P45)

P415 very nice boat post old-P45 hull design so just as good a hull. Only reasons we didn't buy one (and looked v closely at them) was that 2 of our helmspeople couldn't get comfortale at the inner helm (not enough knee/foot room) and the flybridge ladder is almost vertical when the boat is at rest so is probably reverse slope when on the plane. If neither of these bother you a 415 would be as good as a 45 (nearly!)

Birchwood 44 sometimes not so well built/finished, quite a few sad ones around, maybe bought by people who are less of enthusiasts and appreciate the volume/cost ratio more than anything. In terms of seakeeping, I'd prefer Princess post old-P45 any day. I'm not suggesting in any way that Birchwood are dangerous but their hull designs then were about 10 years behind the leaders.

I shall also make no comment whatsoever on their styling, after all beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

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[Deleted User YDKXO]

Hi, welcome to the forum. The Princess 415 and 45 (in particular) were both very good seaboats designed by the renowned designer Olesinski and Princess have a good reputation for build quality
The TS44, I seem to remember, has a semi planing hull shape which means that it wont be as fast as the other 2 with the same horsepower and consume more fuel but it is a particularly voluminous and roomy boat. I think MBY tested it and were not 100% satisfied with the seakeeping. Birchwood ran into quality problems in the early 90's when the company got into financial trouble but boats from the late '80's should be of good quality.
Given the choice, I would go for a late model (post 1990 if you can afford it) Princess 45 with the grp (not stainless) radar arch and Cat 3208 375hp or Volvo TAMD71B 380hp engines. The P45 was Princess's flagship boat for some years so you should find one with good equipment like a big generator, bowthruster and possibly aircon
Whatever you choose, you must get a full hull and equipment survey done for any boat of this kind of age and I strongly recommend that the engines are oil sampled to assess their condition. Many engines of this age may be needing major rebuilds in a few years or less
All of these boats were tested in MBM/MBY and you still may be able to get reprints of their test reports. If you cant, PM me and I'll see if I can dig them out from my old copies

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[adarcy]

and now somebody else has had something nice to say about grp arch P45 w 3208 375hp, large gennie, BT, open scanner Furuno, Eberspacher AND 3 aircon units, I know of one that may well be for sale at the end of this season before or after the interior has been tarted up!

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[Deleted User YDKXO]

Dont forget my commission, then!

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[KevB]

A friend has a very nice, clean 415 for sale. It's on the south coast. PM me for details if interested.

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://static.photobox.co.uk/public/images/45/99/10714599.s.jpg?ch=97&rr=16:00:39>Nirvana</A>

 

[adarcy]

Damn, sussed

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[hlb]

Biodegradable Birchwoods comes to mind.../forums/images/icons/laugh.gif

<hr width=100% size=1> Flags Solly MFBR</font color=red>
Haydn

 

[martynwhiteley]

Although now a former Birchwood owner, I must offer some defence of the marque, since having owned a (1980) Princess 25 prior to the (1985) Birchwood 27, IMHO the B27 offered far better value and useability than the P25. There was no discernable differences in build quality, although of course I'm talking about 20 year old boats that have undergone numerous 'upgrades'.

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[stuartw]

I have had a Birchwood 27 and currently have a Birchwood TS37.
I find the TS37 a fantastic boat, great accomodation, and contrary to a few other comments, is good at sea keeping. I have been out in horrendous conditions, and never felt afraid.
The distictive knuckle at the bow, is very effective at deflecting all but the biggest waves, thus keeping the deck very dry.
In common with beamy crusisers, it does do a rear end twitch with a cross swell, which can be unerving if you are not used to it. New versions of the same hull design have an extended keel to lessen this effect.
I have in fact looked at the TS44, but found it a bit big for our requirements, hence the TS37. Having said that, I prefered the layout to the Pricesses.

In terms of built quality I think they are adequate. Not the best, but good enough. Mine has lots of teak and Alcantara headlinings. So you can find some well appointed examples.

Also you will need some hefty engines to do some reasonable cruisng speeds. It is true that the semi-displacement hull is not as quick as the deep Vee. However it does have other attributes, particularly at low speeds with a cross wind.

Personally, I would keep looking at all marques, and you will find one that you'll fall in love with (or rather SWMBO will )
Happy hunting


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[Medskipper]

I also have a Birchwood 37, President, its the same hull as TS37 but the earlier model. Been out in some awful conditions in her and its seakeeping ability is great. Never felt unsafe. Build quality is IMHO very good and Iv'e been around boats getting on for twenty years. The early Princessess IMHO were finished quite poorly with lots of cheap plastic finishes inside unlike the nice quality woodwork you find in a Birchwood. However all this changed and everone knows Birchwood changed hands several times and quality certainly did suffer! The TS44 is I believe a different hull shape to the 37 and I think built by a different Birchwood Company to that of mine, so I can't help as to its seakeeping ability, but I have friends with 10-15 year old Princessess that always speak well of their sea keeping.

Barry


<hr width=100% size=1>I just want to retire with my boat to the Med!