Beta engine quality drop?

[savsail]

Kubota

I would not have any hesitation fitting one of these units. In the twenty odd years I worked with Kubota I never had cause to strip one down. Mitsubishi, however, was another matter.

 

[Tranona]

And that's what you base your claim on? An ickle bit of zinc whic you have to change once a year...nothing mechanical?

There are little things you do not see that are different - not necessarily better or worse, except the heat exchanger where the Nanni is cast iron and does not seem to suffer from the same problems of corrosion, nor need for an anode. If you want to see the ultimate consequence of an aluminium housing and copper stack, look in this month's PBO at the Volvo 2003T oil cooler replacement.

Of course with proper maintenance and changing the anode regularly it is probably not a problem, but does beg the question- why?

Other differences - the oil pump out pickup is in a different position in the sump and is said to extract more oil, the electrics are a different spec and (on the 14 at least) Nanni is sadi to have a heavier flywheel.

Probably none of this makes any real difference, but does give nerds a justification for buying a blue one rather than a red one (or green if you are on the canals).

 

[snooks]

If you want to get nerdy, Beta add inertia rings (up to 25hp), over pulleys and thrust plates

 

[30boat]

I also don't like the aluminium heat exchanger especially because it eats anodes.Would it have been so hard to specify a cast iron one?

 

[Stoshak]

I came to the defence of Beta's aluminium heat exchanger housing design in a previous post. Perhaps you did not see it, so it is repeated here

The aluminium casing is not exposed to seawater. It contains the engine coolant.

The heat exchanger matrix and the end caps are exposed to seawater and are of similar materials.

Seems to work well.

The aluminium casing, which seems to be a welded fabication, contains the engine's antifreeze and corrosion inhibitor solution. The sea water is contained within the brass or bronze heat exchanger tubes.

The aluminium is not exposed to seawater, only the coolant, and so it is no more likely to corrode than the multitude of aluminium components in car engines.

I do not know of any corrosion problems with the casing, but if there are any they will probably be external to the system.

The famous anode is intended to protect the end caps and heat exchanger. It is nothing to do with the aluminium casing.


I have no connection with Beta, merely a satisfied customer. I consider the title of this thread to be a bit unfortunate. If there are really quality drops then we should have chapter and verse, not innuendo.

The thread has shown no tangible evidence of quality drops, merely lots of satisfaction with the product.

And a few pointers to the niggly anode problem which has always been there.

 

[Crowblack]

I have no connection with Beta, merely a satisfied customer. I consider the title of this thread to be a bit unfortunate. If there are really quality drops then we should have chapter and verse, not innuendo.

The thread has shown no tangible evidence of quality drops, merely lots of satisfaction with the product.

And a few pointers to the niggly anode problem which has always been there.

Well said that man - absolutely bang on - both the product and in my experience in dealing with them the people are first class.

Agree, less innuendo - if you've evidence provide the facts.

 

[TrueBlue]

If this thread was intended to be a mischievous troll then it has spectacularly failed!

Great

Indeed, I've never seen such lengthy and unqualified support for a BRITISH manufacturer.

Excellent

I'm a fan of Beta because:-

• It's a small outfit trying to make quality products
• Being small you can get to an appropriate person reasonably easily
• Being small there's not too much duplication of staff - so contact may be a challenge - especially on a Monday
• They have a good mix of designers and engineers
• They are all very nice to meet and talk to.
• My engine is now 16 years old with 4,700 hours on the clock and is still as smooth and smoke free as it was when new
• They are always looking for ways to simplify the ancillaries which is not always easy within a reasonable cost

A couple of points on belts:-

Poly-V belts are great, but expensive (OK they last much longer). However, supply can be more difficult because they (have to) use automotive section which most belt suppliers don't supply. A complete pain when many auto factors say "for what car, sir"

The engines are (used to be) supplied with V-pulleys - so they had to be thrown away then fit Poly-V pulleys - adds to cost. If the primary belt is just to power the -
internal water pump
standard alternator
seawater pump,
then a V-belt will do the job adequately

If instead the user were to use a cogged or toothed belt then there are little (no) continual tightening issues
Well not for me.
Cogged belts are only a little bit more expensive and my experience they last for at least three times longer (at least - 'cos I haven't changed mine yet).

Last year my huge double, double V-belt pulleys sheared off and fell into the engine bilge. Now replaced with aluminium Poly-V pulleys and belts. For some reason the engine runs a lot smoother and quieter. Cost a bit though..

While I remember - K section pulleys are impossible to source - I had to get mine from Italy. Supplied by a very nice man in Rugby.

For those who say bits are in the wrong place for you - then ask Beta, don't expect if for free, though.

 

[uxb]

Agree, less innuendo - if you've evidence provide the facts.

The question was asked 'cos I had heard that recently there had been problems with poor quality where before Beta had a very good reputation.

I don't have 'evidence' if I did I wouldn't need to ask, would I?

I knew that posting here would generate the required response. - a positive response- but mostly for engines of a good few years in situ.

 

[LittleSister]

The question was asked 'cos I had heard that recently there had been problems with poor quality where before Beta had a very good reputation.

Where did you hear that?

 

[uxb]

Where did you hear that?

From a man who fits them.

 

[Babylon]

From a man who fits them.

Then let the 'man who fits them' stand up and substantiate his comments.

Failing that, stop causing unnecessary mischief.

 

[uxb]

Then let the 'man who fits them' stand up and substantiate his comments.

Failing that, stop causing unnecessary mischief.

When was asking for some advice deemed 'unnecessary mischief' ?

The man that fits them isn't going to be the one forking out a load of dosh- I am -which is why I want the info.

Do you have a Beta engine? If so, what's it like?

If not then kindly move along, there's a good chap.

 

[aslabend]

When was asking for some advice deemed 'unnecessary mischief' ?

The man that fits them isn't going to be the one forking out a load of dosh- I am -which is why I want the info.

Do you have a Beta engine? If so, what's it like?

If not then kindly move along, there's a good chap.

UXB,

I don't think people mind you asking advise, it's just you keep mentioning a "drop in quality" without actually stating what that means or when it started, where it came from and why they said it? I've had a beta 16hp for 4 years, 450 hours used, self serviced, not missed a beat. The first aux. belt wore quite fast but each successive ones have lasted longer as the pulley wear in. The pencil anode needs changing half way through the season but it's a doddle and they're cheap and easy to source. Other than that it has been faultless. I buy filters from my local auto-parts shop and get gaskets (for the coolant stack for example) from beta to be sure they're correct. Beta have always been easy to deal with.

I think everybody finds their own compromise on the engine they buy, some have brand loyalty, some trust an engineer/dealer, others go purely on price. I have a slight downer on Yanmars simply because I sailed a boat with a 1gm10 that didn't want to start.... no matter how I tried(re:I swore at it/ kicked it in the end). I know they are good engines really and if circumstances had been different I might have ended up with one. What I'm trying to say is do your research and try not to question a brand based on just one say so. (there might have been an ulterior motive behind your mechanics comment).

 

[Babylon]

When was asking for some advice deemed 'unnecessary mischief' ?

The man that fits them isn't going to be the one forking out a load of dosh- I am -which is why I want the info.

Do you have a Beta engine? If so, what's it like?

If not then kindly move along, there's a good chap.

You weren't asking for advice: you made an unsubstantiated statement based on a 3rd party's unsubstantiated view that there had been a 'drop' in Beta's quality.

You have also so far been unable to specify in what respect your mechanic contact thinks there has been a 'drop' in Beta's quality.

I have had a Beta 25 for the last 17 mths, with about 115 hours on the tacho. It has the poly-vee belt and the larger alternator (without any extra smart-charging device). Except for the job of the initial alignment, I installed it myself. I've given it both its initial and its first yearly service, and changed the pencil anode an additional time as specified in the manual.

It is relatively new, so one wouldn't expect any age-related problems. There have also been no obvious build or QC issues that have arisen. It starts immediately. It doesn't use any oil. It doesn't vibrate excessively, it is relatively quiet and smooth (compared to the old Bukh DV20) and it doesn't overheat. It charges the batteries. It drives the boat via a flexible-coupling, a PSS seal and a Darglow Featherstream prop.

I asked around a lot before purchasing mine, both on here and in the real world. No-one made any mention of a 'drop' in quality. Everyone sang their praises, especially the helpfullness of Beta themselves.

The only known issues are the lack of longevity of the pencil anode (but its a 90 second job to remove and install a fresh one) and the slight fiddlyness of taking apart the heat-exchanger (give that one ten minutes with a bit of practice).

Talking of moving on, you've been given a lot of information on here - all positive and none whatsoever that gives any credence to your assertions that there has been a 'drop' in quality - and its time you made up your own mind about whether you want a red engine, a blue one, a yellow one or a silver one.

Why don't you go back to your chum and ask him what he means - exactly - by a 'drop' in quality, and then report back to us.

There's a good chap.

 

[Tintin]

You weren't asking for advice: you made an unsubstantiated statement based on a 3rd party's unsubstantiated view that there had been a 'drop' in Beta's quality.

You have also so far been unable to specify in what respect your mechanic contact thinks there has been a 'drop' in Beta's quality.

I have had a Beta 25 for the last 17 mths, with about 115 hours on the tacho. It has the poly-vee belt and the larger alternator (without any extra smart-charging device). Except for the job of the initial alignment, I installed it myself. I've given it both its initial and its first yearly service, and changed the pencil anode an additional time as specified in the manual.

It is relatively new, so one wouldn't expect any age-related problems. There have also been no obvious build or QC issues that have arisen. It starts immediately. It doesn't use any oil. It doesn't vibrate excessively, it is relatively quiet and smooth (compared to the old Bukh DV20) and it doesn't overheat. It charges the batteries. It drives the boat via a flexible-coupling, a PSS seal and a Darglow Featherstream prop.

I asked around a lot before purchasing mine, both on here and in the real world. No-one made any mention of a 'drop' in quality. Everyone sang their praises, especially the helpfullness of Beta themselves.

The only known issues are the lack of longevity of the pencil anode (but its a 90 second job to remove and install a fresh one) and the slight fiddlyness of taking apart the heat-exchanger (give that one ten minutes with a bit of practice).

Talking of moving on, you've been given a lot of information on here - all positive and none whatsoever that gives any credence to your assertions that there has been a 'drop' in quality - and its time you made up your own mind about whether you want a red engine, a blue one, a yellow one or a silver one.

Why don't you go back to your chum and ask him what he means - exactly - by a 'drop' in quality, and then report back to us.

There's a good chap.

+1

 

[Habebty]

If anything, I would say they have improved with the better design of heat exchanger. The old design was not brilliant but worked ok. I have an 8 year old 20hp BD722 and it has been regularly serviced by me annually and the local Beta guy very four years.

It has been virtually faultless once an installation issue had been sorted due to an undersized raw water inlet. The water pump seal is starting to drip, but I'll probably do that myself.

They probably could be improved still further, but like all good designs, get better with evolution, rather than created

 

[uxb]

I have had a Beta 25 for the last 17 mths, with about 115 hours on the tacho. It has the poly-vee belt and the larger alternator (without any extra smart-charging device). Except for the job of the initial alignment, I installed it myself. I've given it both its initial and its first yearly service, and changed the pencil anode an additional time as specified in the manual.

It is relatively new, so one wouldn't expect any age-related problems. There have also been no obvious build or QC issues that have arisen. It starts immediately. It doesn't use any oil. It doesn't vibrate excessively, it is relatively quiet and smooth (compared to the old Bukh DV20) and it doesn't overheat. It charges the batteries. It drives the boat via a flexible-coupling, a PSS seal and a Darglow Featherstream prop.

I asked around a lot before purchasing mine, both on here and in the real world. No-one made any mention of a 'drop' in quality. Everyone sang their praises, especially the helpfullness of Beta themselves.

The only known issues are the lack of longevity of the pencil anode (but its a 90 second job to remove and install a fresh one) and the slight fiddlyness of taking apart the heat-exchanger (give that one ten minutes with a bit of practice).

That's the kind of info I was looking for- thank you.

See, you are a good chap.

 

[Babylon]

That's the kind of info I was looking for- thank you.

See, you are a good chap.

Wow! [removed by admin]

 

[robertj]

And that's what you base your claim on? An ickle bit of zinc whic you have to change once a year...nothing mechanical?

Snooks
when I enquired about changing my bukh the engineer with over 30yrs experience said you pick what you want and I will fit it, if it will go in the space.
I asked his opinion and he said stick with ghe kubota engine either beta or nanni, pros and cons are;
beta are a good product and a superb company to deal with, either from an engineer or owners prospective.

Nanni the same good product but have better marinising kit and epoxy engine paint which lasts longer.

In his opinion having fitted all engines in order of the big boys

nanni
beta
yanmar


Volvo and bukh though good just too expensive to buy and service parts, bukh last on this point.

This was 5 yrs ago. He runs a well established company and when I asked around was highly thought of.

 

[Kurrawong_Kid]

I had a Beta engine in my old boat. When I was at the late lamented Royal Show I saw a Kubota Stand and went and asked them if they had a workshop manual. The salesman said," What do you want one of those for?" Having explained I had a Beta he replied,"You can get one from them, but why bother?". You wont need one for at least 10 years if it's properly serviced!". Nanni or Beta, it matters not! Will it fit matters a lot!