Beta engine breakdown in the clyde !

[Crinan12]

Well?:encouragement:

New tank then. Will keep me busy over the winter !
We made it. Thanks everyone for all the help!
Today was drama free except when I said to my girlfriend, look there is the sugar boat let's go past for a look,it was actually a submarine,I had somehow failed to spot all the police boats! They weren't impressed!

 

[Crinan12]

Oh by the way I showed someone in swordfish marine the photo of what came out of the tank. He said def diesel bug.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Argyle Metal Services possibly?

Mine was made by West of Scotland Engineering, in Glasgow. A good job at a reasonable price.

 

[Crinan12]

I'll echo the "YES" others have given. It looks like your tank has been rusting from the inside, which is how my tank went, with pretty much identical symptoms - it happened to me off on leaving Craobh Haven, fortunately close enough that I could anchor and get the workboat to tow me back in.

The problem is that diesel floats on water, so any water that gets into the tank from condensation or the odd drop getting in when you fill up settles to the bottom of the tank, where it can slowly rust the bottom of the tank. You find out one day when a rough passage and a part-empty tank combine to stir up the rust from the bottom of the tank, blocking the fuel pipes or filters. It can even be intermittent - a big flake blocks the bottom of the dip-tube in the tank when the engine is running, and falls off when the engine stops.

Obviously, cleaning the tank is the first thing to try. In my case, cleaning the tank removed the last layer of rust that was stopping the tank from leaking, and I ended up with many litres of diesel in the bilges, and had to replace the tank! SO, if you get the tank cleaned check carefully that the tank is still diesel tight!

Antarctic sounds exactly what happened to us. It explains why the engine started straight away and would run perfectly well intermittently. I'm guessing here but I would have thought if a filter was badly blocked it would run poorly all the time,or certainly consistently poorly.


How exactly do you check that the tank is 'diesel tight? '
Thanks

 

[ctva]

...How exactly do you check that the tank is 'diesel tight? '
Thanks

Diesel is the most annoying fluid known to man. If there is a micro gap it will find it! And if there isn’t, it’ll find one anyway! I know through experience. How to seal a leak, we’ll that’s the $64k question. Depending on the location in the tank and the permenancy required, drilling out and bolting through with blue or nitrile gasket or epoxy fuel tank sealer as a start.

 

[viago]

Oh by the way I showed someone in swordfish marine the photo of what came out of the tank. He said def diesel bug.

i'd get a second opinion if i were you.

i'd make sure your tank is indeed rusting out before doing anything. a good clean out and get a1 to give you his personal endoscope to inspect it.

if not, you might need to splash out. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Inspecti...813758?hash=item4206327d7e:g:Y~8AAOSwtSFc3hZb

 

[Crinan12]

Cheers viago they look handy I'll buy one anyway

Re tank - I can feel it's rusting - I can pick bits from the inside of the tank. I did read about epoxy repairs - something you can pour in from the inside and it seals over the rust. So might give that a go. Just need to research it a bit more

 

[Daverw]

Test the tank with a hand air pump, if you get to edges use soapy water on outside and look for bubbles or just see if it holds pressure

 

[Old Harry]

Cheers viago they look handy I'll buy one anyway

Re tank - I can feel it's rusting - I can pick bits from the inside of the tank. I did read about epoxy repairs - something you can pour in from the inside and it seals over the rust. So might give that a go. Just need to research it a bit more

You have a tank that has had diesel in for some years, will you de-grease it sufficiently to get that to stick, you may well end up with more issues than you now have.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Cheers viago they look handy I'll buy one anyway

Re tank - I can feel it's rusting - I can pick bits from the inside of the tank. I did read about epoxy repairs - something you can pour in from the inside and it seals over the rust. So might give that a go. Just need to research it a bit more

We had a thread a year or so ago about coating the inside of a tank. The general conclusion was that a) you'd have trouble getting anything to stick and b) it might not work anyway. Someone must have replaced a tank like yours before.

 

[Crinan12]

So sounds like the options are clean and hope it doesn't leak -or replace it!

 

[viago]

So sounds like the options are clean and hope it doesn't leak -or replace it!

if it's not stainless i wouldn't bother messing with it myself. you need a 316 stainless tank imho.

never a good idea to put too much fuel in a tank unless you know you are going to use it up. the crap bio they put in it is a nightmare.

cant remember exactly what size your engine is but 16hp comes to mind for some reason. shouldn't be very thirsty.

40l would be adequate on a raggie imho. you can always get a five gallon jerry can as a reserve supply if you need it for a specific voyage.

i have a 17hp and never have more than a couple of gallons or so in the tank and keep a two gallon plastic reserve container.

even if you dont need a new tank and yours is mild steel, which i doubt, it might be an idea to get a new one anyway. one with an inspection hatch would be useful if you need to clean it out in due course. you cant trust the shite fuel they give us.

 

[Crinan12]

Yeah mine a 16hp
The thing is some people say keep the tank full to avoid condensation/sloshing but I see the logic in not filling it as well so you have a higher throughput.

I think if I get a new one I would just get a plastic one - a 50 litre one is only about £100.

Cheers

 

[Babylon]

Good call. Get a new one, plastic if you like but preferably with a drain-off cock in the bottom for annual checking and tapping off any bug, and keep it full especially in winter - avoiding condensation rather than rapid throughput is the priority, in my opinion.

 

[V1701]

Yes I'd definitely go with a plastic tank, easier to fit an inspection hatch if there isn't on in there already, less prone to condensation, no chance of rusting. Vetus do them or there's TEK Tanks...

 

[ctva]

Good call. Get a new one, plastic if you like but preferably with a drain-off cock in the bottom for annual checking and tapping off any bug, and keep it full especially in winter - avoiding condensation rather than rapid throughput is the priority, in my opinion.

My thoughts too.

Also given our cruising area, 'filling stations' are few and far between. For a Yanmar 29hp I have a 130l tank and carry 80l in cans for our summer cruises which allows us to fill up once a year or so.

 

[viago]

Yes I'd definitely go with a plastic tank, easier to fit an inspection hatch if there isn't on in there already, less prone to condensation, no chance of rusting. Vetus do them or there's TEK Tanks...

certainly there is a lower chance of condensation but what makes you think condensation is the main cause of water in fuel? plastic may be better but it looks like shite.

the ethanol in bio is hydroscopic, the more of that shit you have in your tank the more water you'll get.

it's not that simple as the air in the tank will contain a certain amount of water but so will the air outside and if there's a vent then that water can be sucked from the outside.

with a full tank i'd suggest not having a breather pipe and just releasing the cap a little when in use as you would with an outboard tank.

another disadvantage with a full tank is that it's an expensive bastard if you get bugged up.

then, of course there was that fascinating post by mistroma about the gypos and their asphelt messing up your fuel. never heard of it before, i thought they just nicked it.

Asphaltines are often wrongly diagnosed as being "diesel bug". Diesel used to be much more stable when it was simply distillate within a given temperature range. However, demand outstripped supply and heavier oils were "cracked" (broken apart) to produce lighter oils. Unfortunately, this produces the required lighter/thinner product with some molecules which are prone to joining up again and producing some larger molecules (e.g. Asphaltines). I've tried to simplify my description and avoid being too technical.

Production of asphaltines is accelerated by low sulfur, FAME/Biodiesel, moisture, heat and other factors. I would expect most tanks to have a residue of asphaltines in the bottom these days and biocides won't cure that particular problem.

C

you dont want that with a full tank, it will make matters more likely and a lot worse.

i rest my case for not keeping more fuel than absolutely necessary in your tank.

 

[NormanS]

Am I the only one who feels that it was unfair to Beta, to headline this thread as "Beta engine breakdown....." ? It would appear that the make of the engine has absolutely no bearing on the (fuel) problem.

 

[Crinan12]

You're right Norman the make of the engine is of no relevance whatsoever. And being a sailor who is held in such high esteem internationally I should really retract that bit and apologise to beta !

 

[Crinan12]

Vialo see when you say plastic looks like shit - it's a fuel tank -does it matter? Can't see it anyway. Or am I missing something ? Cheers