Andrew_Trayfoot
Well-Known Member
I moved that very same fuse to a more accessible position.
It's about the only things about the Beta 20 I would criticise.
It's about the only things about the Beta 20 I would criticise.
Beta 14 Starter Motor won't start
- Thread starter DangerousPirate
- Start date
trapper guy
Well-Known Member
ive left it where it is for now, just replaced the fuse so i can get going again, but its deffo a job for the future.
i agree with your sentiments thats its the only thing you can criticise, i sorta feel the same, its proven to be a very reliable engine so far.
oh, besides the cost of the front coolant tube, which blew off at selsey point, leaving me to wait in Portsmouth for the replacement to arrive, £50!!!
its 8 inches long!
but the location of that fuse completely destroys my outlook towards beta.
it would be SUCH an easy task to do before engines are shipped out!
i sent them an email, the long and the short of it was i came up with 4 likely scenarios...
1,they are just plain lazy
2. they are too stupid to realise the the lack of space around the engine in an average small boat
3, they are just skinflints, preferring not to make such a small modification in favour of profits.
4, they are just money grubbing corporate B****** looking to make an extra buck on the callouts from the clueless masses that end up in the same predicament.
im eagerly awaiting a reply, but i doubt i will get one.
i agree with your sentiments thats its the only thing you can criticise, i sorta feel the same, its proven to be a very reliable engine so far.
oh, besides the cost of the front coolant tube, which blew off at selsey point, leaving me to wait in Portsmouth for the replacement to arrive, £50!!!
its 8 inches long!
but the location of that fuse completely destroys my outlook towards beta.
it would be SUCH an easy task to do before engines are shipped out!
i sent them an email, the long and the short of it was i came up with 4 likely scenarios...
1,they are just plain lazy
2. they are too stupid to realise the the lack of space around the engine in an average small boat
3, they are just skinflints, preferring not to make such a small modification in favour of profits.
4, they are just money grubbing corporate B****** looking to make an extra buck on the callouts from the clueless masses that end up in the same predicament.
im eagerly awaiting a reply, but i doubt i will get one.
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Andrew_Trayfoot
Well-Known Member
Generally I think the are actually a pretty good company.
At the beginning of this season I melted my starter motor due to a stuck key switch. They were really helpful working with a slightly fraught me diagnosing what was going on. I was back up and running in 3 days...
At the beginning of this season I melted my starter motor due to a stuck key switch. They were really helpful working with a slightly fraught me diagnosing what was going on. I was back up and running in 3 days...
trapper guy
Well-Known Member
i presume you are speaking about the uk crew?
yeah, they are franchisees as far as im aware, just a uk appointed distributor of the american companies product.
its the american company im pointing fingers at, those who's specifications the engines are built to
the uk lot sorted me out recently as i blew the front coolant tube on selsey point, they posted one out to me, but not at small cost.
regular 25mm coolant hose is available at around £10-£15 per metre from most outlets, but this is a 'special shaped pipe' costing £50, which i feel is extortionate given that its only around 8-10 inches long
Andrew_Trayfoot
Well-Known Member
Beta Marine is a UK company based in Gloucester as far as I'm aware.
Beta Marine | Diesel Marine Propulsion Engines, Generating Sets & Inboard Electric Propulsion Motors
They maranise Japanese Kabuta industrial engines..
Not aware that they are American, although I see they have an American presence.
In terms of spare parts prices. They are no worse than any other main dealer, but they do hold stock.
Beta Marine | Diesel Marine Propulsion Engines, Generating Sets & Inboard Electric Propulsion Motors
They maranise Japanese Kabuta industrial engines..
Not aware that they are American, although I see they have an American presence.
In terms of spare parts prices. They are no worse than any other main dealer, but they do hold stock.
DangerousPirate
Well-Known Member
Look, engineers just work like that. They design something until it works, and then don't touch it again. Doesn't matter if the servicing is difficult as long as their design works.
Same with cars. Sometimes you have to take the whole windshield out just to tighten a 10 inch nut that could have easily been placed a few centimetres down the dashboard, but they didn't. Garages swear their fingers off, repairs are more expensive due to the extra labour, but engineers designed it and call it a day.
DangerousPirate
Well-Known Member
Oh, I used to have a yanmar engine. Bloody prices on that. Beta is quite affordable, and if it's too expensive, you can always look for kubota tractor parts. Usually the same thing but a lot cheaper
DangerousPirate
Well-Known Member
Okay, been a while as I was gone but now I got to fiddle around on the engine. I replaced the key switch for a new one, also the engine stop button as both were really corroded.
I spent the afternoon taking the alternator out (which was stubborn) and just when I was about to start on taking the starter motor out, I noticed something odd; the motor wouldn't do anything per usual on the engine setting one (which should be the starter battery only) but if I put it on ALL or battery two (my bank) the starter surrs when I touch the solenoid with a spanner.
When I try to turn the key, I get nothing, no electricity and the starter isn't activated either. Hmm.... Maybe a bad cable, who knows, but once I put the alternator belt back, the starter still just surrs and the engine is not actually starting now. I am stumped. I was ready to just take the old starter motor out and get a new one, thinking that would be the solution.
I want to mention it didn't click, which is the familiar sound to me when the engine tries to start (but has issues other than electric).
Now I am a step further but not really sure. Also I can't find that bloody fuse. Might look at it again tomorrow, maybe that's corroded as well. But I need to rewire this whole mess. There really shouldn't be any starter motor action when it's on the domestic battery setting, and there should be action when it's on the engine battery setting.
I spent the afternoon taking the alternator out (which was stubborn) and just when I was about to start on taking the starter motor out, I noticed something odd; the motor wouldn't do anything per usual on the engine setting one (which should be the starter battery only) but if I put it on ALL or battery two (my bank) the starter surrs when I touch the solenoid with a spanner.
When I try to turn the key, I get nothing, no electricity and the starter isn't activated either. Hmm.... Maybe a bad cable, who knows, but once I put the alternator belt back, the starter still just surrs and the engine is not actually starting now. I am stumped. I was ready to just take the old starter motor out and get a new one, thinking that would be the solution.
I want to mention it didn't click, which is the familiar sound to me when the engine tries to start (but has issues other than electric).
Now I am a step further but not really sure. Also I can't find that bloody fuse. Might look at it again tomorrow, maybe that's corroded as well. But I need to rewire this whole mess. There really shouldn't be any starter motor action when it's on the domestic battery setting, and there should be action when it's on the engine battery setting.
Andrew_Trayfoot
Well-Known Member
Are you sure your batteries are OK?
A 1:2:both switch will make either the domestic:engine:both batteries the supply to the circuit..
This does sound like low or flat batteries, or a really bad connection.
I'd start with the engine negative.....
A 1:2:both switch will make either the domestic:engine:both batteries the supply to the circuit..
This does sound like low or flat batteries, or a really bad connection.
I'd start with the engine negative.....
Tamar
Well-Known Member
Have you looked at the connections on the 1-2- both switch? When I was having trouble starting my Perkins the symptoms were flat batteries although they were fully charged. I cleaned up every connection all to no avail. When someone on this forum suggested cleaning the switch, on opening it up I found all connections inside were corroded away
A new switch cured the problem.
A new switch cured the problem.
DangerousPirate
Well-Known Member
One of the first things I checked. The switch is inside and in a very dry location, connections were in mint condition.
I checked the battery just now and it was at 9v, which was still fine yesterday when I started. Hm. Now I don't know if the issue was because of a dead battery (now, because before it was ok I tested it every 5 minutes basically) or something else.
But I want to add that my mate thought it's the battery too, so he brought his battery booster kit and it did nothing as (at least then) the battery was fine
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trapper guy
Well-Known Member
my fuse was directly underneath the air filter intake box and between it and the bell housing, i had to take the filter housing off and still couldnt see it with the phone camera waved around. maybe you can see the wire harness passing between them? if you can trace around there with your hand with the filter box removed, the fuse is in a little box-like object attached to the wires. if not there, then the book says its somewhere above the starter motor, i wasnt that lucky.
the not clicking part you mentioned sounds like a solenoid issue, the small wire is a low voltage signal to allow the solenoid to deliver the high amp supply to the starter, if you short the top stud and the starter body and and the engine turns then its the solenoid IF the low amp signal is being sent and received. thats where the clicking sound happens, the solenoid also pushes the starter cog forward to engage in the flywheel teeth.
my advice is double your efforts to locate the fuse first, once thats sorted move onto the next before rewiring everything.
the not clicking part you mentioned sounds like a solenoid issue, the small wire is a low voltage signal to allow the solenoid to deliver the high amp supply to the starter, if you short the top stud and the starter body and and the engine turns then its the solenoid IF the low amp signal is being sent and received. thats where the clicking sound happens, the solenoid also pushes the starter cog forward to engage in the flywheel teeth.
my advice is double your efforts to locate the fuse first, once thats sorted move onto the next before rewiring everything.
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DangerousPirate
Well-Known Member
Today it's time for a classic; Finding Private Fuse.
It's not for chiildren for all the blood (from knuckles probably) and coarse language.
trapper guy
Well-Known Member
oh there was much of that, plus lots of fuming and steaming and stomping around, took me a good twwo hours to get the damn thing changed once id located it.
and yes, the knuckles and the back of my hand bore all the marks.
once i'd done it, i sent beta the angry email, i never did get a reply.
DangerousPirate
Well-Known Member
Okay, found the bastard. I checked continuitiy with my multimeter and there wasn't any from one spade to the other, so maybe a blown fuse and probably some issues between the keyswitch and the motor. I am off to halfords now to buy a new battery (this one doesn't hold charge any more.) and a new blade fuse. Fingers crossed it's just this now
Attachments
DangerousPirate
Well-Known Member
Okay, got the new parts, but bit stumped on how I would go on cleaning the fuse holder now. I'd replace it, if I could reach the cable well enough to work on it, but I honestly can't.
And then that's maybe not even the solution, with my luck. *sigh* boat jobs...
And then that's maybe not even the solution, with my luck. *sigh* boat jobs...
trapper guy
Well-Known Member
ive thought about this for a week or two since my issue, and this is how i intend to deal with the issue one i get to my home port.
im going to get two spade connectors wired up on a length, attach another fuse block to the other end. arrange the spades in the same configuration as the blade fuse, fix them in place with some polymorph thermoplastic, then just simply plug them into the existing connector, then place the new fuse holder in a much much more convenient location.
i may then use some more polymorph plastic around the spades and old fuse holder just to securely join them permanently.
its the best solution i can think of given that i absolutely do not have access to be soldering anything, and i dont want to have the same struggle again the next time.
i cant even get both hands around it where it is now to do anything with it, it was all done by deft manipulation with one hand and my ear squashed up against the bulkhead
fixing the fuse may not be the end of your problem, but its the cheapest and most likely of culprits, so wont cost you an arm for doing it, and it absolutely needed doing anyway.
if it DOES fix your issue, you can have a few pints with the money you woulda spent on a new starter
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DangerousPirate
Well-Known Member
Yes, moving the fuse is definitely useful for the future, but I only lack the access to move anything around, it's so inaccessible, that I can't even grab it with both hands at the same time, how am I going to do any cabling there?ive thought about this for a week or two since my issue, and this is how i intend to deal with the issue one i get to my home port.
im going to get two spade connectors wired up on a length, attach another fuse block to the other end. arrange the spades in the same configuration as the blade fuse, fix them in place with some polymorph thermoplastic, then just simply plug them into the existing connector, then place the new fuse holder in a much much more convenient location.
i may then use some more polymorph plastic around the spades and old fuse holder just to securely join them permanently.
its the best solution i can think of given that i absolutely do not have access to be soldering anything, and i dont want to have the same struggle again the next time.
i cant even get both hands around it where it is now to do anything with it, it was all done by deft manipulation with one hand and my ear squashed up against the bulkhead
fixing the fuse may not be the end of your problem, but its the cheapest and most likely of culprits, so wont cost you an arm for doing it, and it absolutely needed doing anyway.
if it DOES fix your issue, you can have a few pints with the money you woulda spent on a new starter
Well, for now I have to wait for a very thin wire brush that I ordered, looks like a pipe cleaner but more resilient. Then just use contact cleaner spray and scrub it clean hopefully. If not I'll have to do it totally different. Fingers crossed it's just the fuse now
trapper guy
Well-Known Member
i guess the way to clean it would be something like a feeler gauge of approx thickness of the fuse blades with a bit of wet and dry glued to it, and just push it in and out, which could be done with one hand, even if with some difficulty, which lets face it, is just as awkward as removing and inserting the fuse itself.
fingers crossed for you, i know your pain, i cracked my instrument panel removing it, as it was bonded on with some water sealing agent or other, believing my troubles to begin there, however it was not to be.
it was the fuse alone causing all of it in my case.
fingers crossed for you, i know your pain, i cracked my instrument panel removing it, as it was bonded on with some water sealing agent or other, believing my troubles to begin there, however it was not to be.
it was the fuse alone causing all of it in my case.
trapper guy
Well-Known Member
there is a substance i used to use in the electronics industry that i feel may be of use to readers.
i was the storeman for a company that used to make the electronics that went into the newer versions of parking meters, and part of the companies stipulations for manufacture was by coating the finished circuit board in something called 'conformal coating' to protect everything from the effects of moisture and weather.
it basically protected the circuit from corrosion due to moisture.
i personally consider it expensive, but well worth the expense, and when all is considered, its still probably cheaper than anything sold in a swindelery. it is however very effective and does everything it say on the tin.
there is one drawback, soldering components after it has been applied is a pain, but then soldering will hardly be needed at all after its application.
this is the stuff i use, but it can also be bought in a can as a brush on formula, costs a bit more, but you get more of it than in a spray can.
Ambersil 30235-AA Acrylic Conformal Coating 400ml
i was the storeman for a company that used to make the electronics that went into the newer versions of parking meters, and part of the companies stipulations for manufacture was by coating the finished circuit board in something called 'conformal coating' to protect everything from the effects of moisture and weather.
it basically protected the circuit from corrosion due to moisture.
i personally consider it expensive, but well worth the expense, and when all is considered, its still probably cheaper than anything sold in a swindelery. it is however very effective and does everything it say on the tin.
there is one drawback, soldering components after it has been applied is a pain, but then soldering will hardly be needed at all after its application.
this is the stuff i use, but it can also be bought in a can as a brush on formula, costs a bit more, but you get more of it than in a spray can.
Ambersil 30235-AA Acrylic Conformal Coating 400ml