[194224]
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I'm not suggesting that isn't a valid step but you have to be careful in what you infer from that. Even if you do see +12V ish with the key turned it does not rule out a high resistance key switch.
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Beta 14 Starter Motor won't start
- Thread starter DangerousPirate
- Start date
Andrew_Trayfoot
Active member
Agreed,
Hence the test with a length of wire to bypass the key switch.
Kubuta key switches do have a bit of a reputation according to both a couple of members at my club and the service guy at Beta....
DangerousPirate
Active member
Thank you as well for your help, too. Very useful. I will look at it on sunday, that's my day off.
It does not click though.
[194224]
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My son had an ignition switch failure on his Beta 14 and we replaced it with another Kubota (tractor) switch so my limited experience would agree with that of those who have more experience.
westernman
Well-known member
Poor connections can result in that everything you said there looks just fine, but when starting nothing happens.
I have had this happen - I thought the starter motor was dead, but it was just a high resistance connection which when measure with the voltmeter have the right voltages.
I also had the key switch stick (too many keys) and not spring back. In my case the starter motor caught fire.
I am slow learner, so it happened a second time as well.
Andrew_Trayfoot
Active member
I had a key switch stick 2 weeks ago at lift in, which melted my starter motor.l and blew a 120a fuse.
Am now quite good at changing Beat 20 starter motors!!!
Have also changed the key switch
Am now quite good at changing Beat 20 starter motors!!!
Have also changed the key switch
DangerousPirate
Active member
I didn't get to do anything yesterday, work came in between, but was checking things on the battery end today (the key switch is outside and it's quite wet rn so do it some other time).
I checked the battery again, which was disconnected the whole time and it's still full.
So, one of the things I checked was the solenoid connections, I put the negative to the battery and the positive to the big solenoid screw and got a reading of about 10 volts. So at least it's not dead, unfortunately I can't turn the key and read at the same time on my own (too far apart) but I think it still should be 12 volts?
But when I hotwired the solenoid with a spanner, I got my sparks and I could hear the beeping sound come on for the longest time in a while (it didn't give me an alarm buzz before), but the starter engine didn't try to turn at all. I am sure this is not a good sign.
When the key is switched halfway, I now also don't get any lights any more. Before, they came and went but didn't think much of it, they were always giving me trouble.
I suppose the next thing is to go and check the key switch when it's drier.
I checked the battery again, which was disconnected the whole time and it's still full.
So, one of the things I checked was the solenoid connections, I put the negative to the battery and the positive to the big solenoid screw and got a reading of about 10 volts. So at least it's not dead, unfortunately I can't turn the key and read at the same time on my own (too far apart) but I think it still should be 12 volts?
But when I hotwired the solenoid with a spanner, I got my sparks and I could hear the beeping sound come on for the longest time in a while (it didn't give me an alarm buzz before), but the starter engine didn't try to turn at all. I am sure this is not a good sign.
When the key is switched halfway, I now also don't get any lights any more. Before, they came and went but didn't think much of it, they were always giving me trouble.
I suppose the next thing is to go and check the key switch when it's drier.
Andrew_Trayfoot
Active member
Was the 10v a type?
It's worth getting hold of a cheap multi meter with a continuity beeper and some crocodile clip leads. Then you can test the key switch remotely.
PM me if you want to talk it through....
It's worth getting hold of a cheap multi meter with a continuity beeper and some crocodile clip leads. Then you can test the key switch remotely.
PM me if you want to talk it through....
DangerousPirate
Active member
Ordered some crocodile clips. I tried with a cable but just didn't work well.
Still think the starter should have done more than just activate the alarm sound
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Bilgediver
Well-known member
The best way of checking and every boater should have one is to test the circuit using a test lamp and preferably at least 36 Watts. These are easily made by soldering leads on a bulb of around 30 Watts at least.
VicS
Well-known member
I have an old car car headlamp bulb on a couple of leads (even has spade terminals so soldering was not necessary)
Doubles as a 12 volt "lead lamp"
From the pre halogen and sealed beam era. I think it came out of my father's first car.
DangerousPirate
Active member
Okay, so today I checked the cables more. The cable coming from the battery selector had a big rip in it, and was buggered. I cut it off, crimped it new, connected it again and et voila, 12 volts at the solenoid.
Unfortunately, that wasn't the fix though. Upon taking the key switch off, I saw that all the connections are corroded to hell and back. At this point, I need a new key switch. So there is one from beta marine, which is like 95 quid or I could get this one from ebay:
66706-55120 Ignition Starter Switch with Key for Kubota B4200D B5100 B6100 B7100 | eBay
But I am not sure if there is a difference somewhere.
Pretty sure I can just buy the cheap one. Looks like it got the on and off, the heating and the starter, and that's all it needs, right?
One thing I don't look forward to, is replacing all the cables. Are there premade ignition cables? Otherwise, it'll just be a mess connecting it all through the boat and make up 5 or so cables. Not sure what you'd call that? Don't find much for "ignition cables".
Either way, another thing I did today was test the key switch and temporarily put the starter cable on the domestic battery bank as well just to see if it works, but alas. Didn't.
Winding back a little in this reply, I mentioned that I got my 12v at the solenoid now, so I tried to hotwire the starter motor again, but I got no reaction from it. The only light that comes on, is the battery light, no other, and no click from the starter motor. Does that mean the starter motor is dead?
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[194224]
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When the switch failed on my son's Beta 14 he replaced it with this from Amazon which I suspect is the same as the ebay one you've found. Terminal markings and switch functionality were identical to the old switch. He had the old Type A panel (no gauges) and the only thing he commented on was that the new switch was designed for a slightly thinner panel. However it still fitted and works fine.
Andrew_Trayfoot
Active member
The ones on Amazon for £20 are identical (right down to the key!).
I fitted this one two weeks ago:
66706-55120 Ignition Switch replacement for Kubota B5100 B6100 B7100 W/2 Keys fits Engines and Equipment https://amzn.eu/d/3Tg2EQf
I fitted this one two weeks ago:
66706-55120 Ignition Switch replacement for Kubota B5100 B6100 B7100 W/2 Keys fits Engines and Equipment https://amzn.eu/d/3Tg2EQf
Andrew_Trayfoot
Active member
These guys supply the cable at about the best price:
Oceanflex Tinned Battery Cable Single Core 35mm Red - Marine Electricals
Oceanflex Tinned Battery Cable Single Core 35mm Red - Marine Electricals
[194224]
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Same one as I referred to in post #33.
DangerousPirate
Active member
Perfect, i just don't use amazon but yes, you are right. Absolutely identical. At the end of the day, key switches are easily interchangable. Most engines work the same way anyway.
Oh nice
I bought from that shop before. I wasn't sure which diameter I needed. Forgot to measure earlier.Andrew_Trayfoot
Active member
you can get the key switch on ebay as well for the same money.Perfect, i just don't use amazon but yes, you are right. Absolutely identical. At the end of the day, key switches are easily interchangable. Most engines work the same way anyway.
Oh nice
I would go for 25mm2 cable for the starter motor.
Alex_Blackwood
Well-known member
If looking for Beta spares see if you can find a KUBOTA agent in your area. All same, same
trapper guy
Active member
there is a 40amp fuse on the engine, i know this because ive just spent two days trying to figure out why my beta 14 wont start.
it did start, i sailed to brixham from portland, moored up, all great..
then found my electric hookup cord wouldnt reach the distribution box, so i set about turning the boat around.
long and short of it is, the panel flashed up all lights as usual, then went dead.
i dismounted the panel to check for loose wires, checked the battery, went around all the fuses in the engine bay, i checked every connection i could for voltage, but there was nothing going to the panel.
tearing my hair out, i pulled up the beta maintenance manual 'if engine wont start, check the fuse that is either on top of the starter motor, or on the back of the engine over the bell housing'
ive got a trapper 500/501 (not completely sure which tbh) and there is precious little access to the engine.
cutting a longer story much shorter, most of the time spent trying to remedy my problem was trying to find this fuse, i used my phone camera and a torch, cant really get two hands in except for one hand in a small side compartment and one through the main access behind the steps....couldnt see it.
gouged myself trying to get my hand in to feel a trace on the wiring loom which disappeared under the air filter housing, tried from the other side, could feel a connection of some description, tried again with the phone and the torch to get a look at it, no joy.
i then took the air filter housing off, easier access, still couldnt see it with the camera...so i did some blind exploratory feeling, huffing puffing and a lot of swearing later, my hand came out with the blade fuse, it was blown. have replaced in now and everything is good.
but the one question that arises out of my struggles is this.
WHY, does a marine engine supplier, supply engines with such a critical fuse in such an awkward and inaccessible place as on the back of the engine????
it would be such a simple task to extend the leads running from the fuse holder to mount the fuse on the side or the front of the engine!!!
i wont be buying another beta. like the fuse, they've blown it with that D*****s move.
im both relieved and fuming smoke from my ears all at the same time.
it did start, i sailed to brixham from portland, moored up, all great..
then found my electric hookup cord wouldnt reach the distribution box, so i set about turning the boat around.
long and short of it is, the panel flashed up all lights as usual, then went dead.
i dismounted the panel to check for loose wires, checked the battery, went around all the fuses in the engine bay, i checked every connection i could for voltage, but there was nothing going to the panel.
tearing my hair out, i pulled up the beta maintenance manual 'if engine wont start, check the fuse that is either on top of the starter motor, or on the back of the engine over the bell housing'
ive got a trapper 500/501 (not completely sure which tbh) and there is precious little access to the engine.
cutting a longer story much shorter, most of the time spent trying to remedy my problem was trying to find this fuse, i used my phone camera and a torch, cant really get two hands in except for one hand in a small side compartment and one through the main access behind the steps....couldnt see it.
gouged myself trying to get my hand in to feel a trace on the wiring loom which disappeared under the air filter housing, tried from the other side, could feel a connection of some description, tried again with the phone and the torch to get a look at it, no joy.
i then took the air filter housing off, easier access, still couldnt see it with the camera...so i did some blind exploratory feeling, huffing puffing and a lot of swearing later, my hand came out with the blade fuse, it was blown. have replaced in now and everything is good.
but the one question that arises out of my struggles is this.
WHY, does a marine engine supplier, supply engines with such a critical fuse in such an awkward and inaccessible place as on the back of the engine????
it would be such a simple task to extend the leads running from the fuse holder to mount the fuse on the side or the front of the engine!!!
i wont be buying another beta. like the fuse, they've blown it with that D*****s move.
im both relieved and fuming smoke from my ears all at the same time.
