Beta 14 Starter Motor won't start

[Baltika_no_9]

1. Check the key switch feed (thin wire on the solanode). Pull it off and use a multi meter to test it goes to +12v ish (black wire on multi meter to batt -ve.) When you turn the key.

I'm not suggesting that isn't a valid step but you have to be careful in what you infer from that. Even if you do see +12V ish with the key turned it does not rule out a high resistance key switch.

 

[Andrew_Trayfoot]

I'm not suggesting that isn't a valid step but you have to be careful in what you infer from that. Even if you do see +12V ish with the key turned it does not rule out a high resistance key switch.

Agreed,
Hence the test with a length of wire to bypass the key switch.

Kubuta key switches do have a bit of a reputation according to both a couple of members at my club and the service guy at Beta....

 

[DangerousPirate]

I was going to offer to come and have a look, but NI is a bit far from Dorset...

I recently had to replace the starter motor on my Beta 20 when the key switch stuck and it melted!

1. Check the key switch feed (thin wire on the solanode). Pull it off and use a multi meter to test it goes to +12v ish (black wire on multi meter to batt -ve.) When you turn the key.

2. Repeat above but multi meter -ve to engine body. To check engine grounding is OK.

3. Use multi meter to check that the big fat +ve wire in the solinode is showing +12v.

4. Get a long bit of wire fit a crimp on it. Push the crimp onto the solonide terminal (see 1). Make sure the wire is clear of the alternator and touch it on the batt +ve.

Assuming the battery is OK, that will prove that the keyswich, solinode, starter motor are ok.

If you get a click, but no starter motor then it's the starter motor.

The solinode and starter motor come as one part. £300 from Beta/£110 on ebay.

PM me if you want to talk this through...

Thank you as well for your help, too. Very useful. I will look at it on sunday, that's my day off.

It does not click though.

 

[Baltika_no_9]

Agreed,
Hence the test with a length of wire to bypass the key switch.

Kubuta key switches do have a bit of a reputation according to both a couple of members at my club and the service guy at Beta....

My son had an ignition switch failure on his Beta 14 and we replaced it with another Kubota (tractor) switch so my limited experience would agree with that of those who have more experience.

 

[westernman]

I was going to offer to come and have a look, but NI is a bit far from Dorset...

I recently had to replace the starter motor on my Beta 20 when the key switch stuck and it melted!

1. Check the key switch feed (thin wire on the solanode). Pull it off and use a multi meter to test it goes to +12v ish (black wire on multi meter to batt -ve.) When you turn the key.

2. Repeat above but multi meter -ve to engine body. To check engine grounding is OK.

3. Use multi meter to check that the big fat +ve wire in the solinode is showing +12v.

4. Get a long bit of wire fit a crimp on it. Push the crimp onto the solonide terminal (see 1). Make sure the wire is clear of the alternator and touch it on the batt +ve.

Assuming the battery is OK, that will prove that the keyswich, solinode, starter motor are ok.

If you get a click, but no starter motor then it's the starter motor.

The solinode and starter motor come as one part. £300 from Beta/£110 on ebay.

PM me if you want to talk this through...

Poor connections can result in that everything you said there looks just fine, but when starting nothing happens.
I have had this happen - I thought the starter motor was dead, but it was just a high resistance connection which when measure with the voltmeter have the right voltages.

I also had the key switch stick (too many keys) and not spring back. In my case the starter motor caught fire.
I am slow learner, so it happened a second time as well.

 

[Andrew_Trayfoot]

I had a key switch stick 2 weeks ago at lift in, which melted my starter motor.l and blew a 120a fuse.

Am now quite good at changing Beat 20 starter motors!!!

Have also changed the key switch

 

[DangerousPirate]

I didn't get to do anything yesterday, work came in between, but was checking things on the battery end today (the key switch is outside and it's quite wet rn so do it some other time).

I checked the battery again, which was disconnected the whole time and it's still full.

So, one of the things I checked was the solenoid connections, I put the negative to the battery and the positive to the big solenoid screw and got a reading of about 10 volts. So at least it's not dead, unfortunately I can't turn the key and read at the same time on my own (too far apart) but I think it still should be 12 volts?

But when I hotwired the solenoid with a spanner, I got my sparks and I could hear the beeping sound come on for the longest time in a while (it didn't give me an alarm buzz before), but the starter engine didn't try to turn at all. I am sure this is not a good sign.

When the key is switched halfway, I now also don't get any lights any more. Before, they came and went but didn't think much of it, they were always giving me trouble.

I suppose the next thing is to go and check the key switch when it's drier.

 

[Andrew_Trayfoot]

Was the 10v a type?
It's worth getting hold of a cheap multi meter with a continuity beeper and some crocodile clip leads. Then you can test the key switch remotely.
PM me if you want to talk it through....

 

[DangerousPirate]

Was the 10v a type?
It's worth getting hold of a cheap multi meter with a continuity beeper and some crocodile clip leads. Then you can test the key switch remotely.
PM me if you want to talk it through....

Ordered some crocodile clips. I tried with a cable but just didn't work well.

Still think the starter should have done more than just activate the alarm sound

 

[Bilgediver]

Was the 10v a type?
It's worth getting hold of a cheap multi meter with a continuity beeper and some crocodile clip leads. Then you can test the key switch remotely.
PM me if you want to talk it through....

The best way of checking and every boater should have one is to test the circuit using a test lamp and preferably at least 36 Watts. These are easily made by soldering leads on a bulb of around 30 Watts at least.

 

[VicS]

The best way of checking and every boater should have one is to test the circuit using a test lamp and preferably at least 36 Watts. These are easily made by soldering leads on a bulb of around 30 Watts at least.

I have an old car car headlamp bulb on a couple of leads (even has spade terminals so soldering was not necessary)
Doubles as a 12 volt "lead lamp"
From the pre halogen and sealed beam era. I think it came out of my father's first car.

 

[DangerousPirate]

Was the 10v a type?
It's worth getting hold of a cheap multi meter with a continuity beeper and some crocodile clip leads. Then you can test the key switch remotely.
PM me if you want to talk it through....

Okay, so today I checked the cables more. The cable coming from the battery selector had a big rip in it, and was buggered. I cut it off, crimped it new, connected it again and et voila, 12 volts at the solenoid.

Unfortunately, that wasn't the fix though. Upon taking the key switch off, I saw that all the connections are corroded to hell and back. At this point, I need a new key switch. So there is one from beta marine, which is like 95 quid or I could get this one from ebay:

66706-55120 Ignition Starter Switch with Key for Kubota B4200D B5100 B6100 B7100 | eBay

But I am not sure if there is a difference somewhere.

Pretty sure I can just buy the cheap one. Looks like it got the on and off, the heating and the starter, and that's all it needs, right?

One thing I don't look forward to, is replacing all the cables. Are there premade ignition cables? Otherwise, it'll just be a mess connecting it all through the boat and make up 5 or so cables. Not sure what you'd call that? Don't find much for "ignition cables".


Either way, another thing I did today was test the key switch and temporarily put the starter cable on the domestic battery bank as well just to see if it works, but alas. Didn't.

Winding back a little in this reply, I mentioned that I got my 12v at the solenoid now, so I tried to hotwire the starter motor again, but I got no reaction from it. The only light that comes on, is the battery light, no other, and no click from the starter motor. Does that mean the starter motor is dead?

 

[Baltika_no_9]

When the switch failed on my son's Beta 14 he replaced it with this from Amazon which I suspect is the same as the ebay one you've found. Terminal markings and switch functionality were identical to the old switch. He had the old Type A panel (no gauges) and the only thing he commented on was that the new switch was designed for a slightly thinner panel. However it still fitted and works fine.

 

[Andrew_Trayfoot]

The ones on Amazon for £20 are identical (right down to the key!).

I fitted this one two weeks ago:

66706-55120 Ignition Switch replacement for Kubota B5100 B6100 B7100 W/2 Keys fits Engines and Equipment https://amzn.eu/d/3Tg2EQf

 

[Andrew_Trayfoot]

These guys supply the cable at about the best price:
Oceanflex Tinned Battery Cable Single Core 35mm Red - Marine Electricals

 

[Baltika_no_9]

The ones on Amazon for £20 are identical (right down to the key!).

I fitted this one two weeks ago:

66706-55120 Ignition Switch replacement for Kubota B5100 B6100 B7100 W/2 Keys fits Engines and Equipment Amazon.co.uk

Same one as I referred to in post #33.

 

[DangerousPirate]

When the switch failed on my son's Beta 14 he replaced it with this from Amazon which I suspect is the same as the ebay one you've found. Terminal markings and switch functionality were identical to the old switch. He had the old Type A panel (no gauges) and the only thing he commented on was that the new switch was designed for a slightly thinner panel. However it still fitted and works fine.

Perfect, i just don't use amazon but yes, you are right. Absolutely identical. At the end of the day, key switches are easily interchangable. Most engines work the same way anyway.

These guys supply the cable at about the best price:
Oceanflex Tinned Battery Cable Single Core 35mm Red - Marine Electricals

Oh nice I bought from that shop before. I wasn't sure which diameter I needed. Forgot to measure earlier.

 

[Andrew_Trayfoot]

Perfect, i just don't use amazon but yes, you are right. Absolutely identical. At the end of the day, key switches are easily interchangable. Most engines work the same way anyway.

Oh nice I bought from that shop before. I wasn't sure which diameter I needed. Forgot to measure earlier.

you can get the key switch on ebay as well for the same money.

I would go for 25mm2 cable for the starter motor.

 

[Alex_Blackwood]

you can get the key switch on ebay as well for the same money.

I would go for 25mm2 cable for the starter motor.

If looking for Beta spares see if you can find a KUBOTA agent in your area. All same, same