Best method to determine position at night to check for anchor drag?

[Supertramp]

I only anchor in extreme emergency- circa 5 times inthe last 30 years- so I admit this question is a bit academic. But as I do not know the answer, perhaps someone can explain please.
It seems that from the above, one lobs the anchor over, with loads of chain, then goes in reverse for a bit to set it.
Then apparently, from this thread, goes to kip & wakes up every so often, because they are worried about it dragging.
But aside from that, what happens when the tide turns? Surely the anchor breaks out. Do you all get up & do the reverse engine bit again. Because, if one now relies on it setting itself, then what was the purpose of the engine reversing in the first place?

First point is not to lob all the chain out at once, try and lay it in a line as the boat moves backwards. Then I use a short burst of astern to get the boat moving backwards, back to neutral and then up front to the chain to see and feel if it stretches out tight, stops the boat, doesn't grate or snatch, falls steadily back as the boat moves forwards. There's no need for full astern. It might depend on your engine but the snatch load on 10 tonnes of boat with 60hp in full astern would certainly test lots of bits of the system! Dont forget to take the load off the winch when doing this with a snubber or cleat.

I sometimes do it under sail without the engine but only if there's enough space to deal with the chaos if it didn't set. It's actually really relaxing under sail but only in places I know.

When the tide turns, there is a risk that it will unset, but with enough decent weight chain on the bottom its normally OK.

The sleeping bit depends on wind, sea state and location. In a tight anchorage (near the shore or rocks) then the reassurance of an anchor watch is good. Most my dramas have been in exposed spots with wind changes, usually at night.

The real bonus is that you can then fully enjoy anchoring threads.....

 

[Refueler]

But aside from that, what happens when the tide turns? Surely the anchor breaks out. Do you all get up & do the reverse engine bit again. Because, if one now relies on it setting itself, then what was the purpose of the engine reversing in the first place?

If anyone cares to examine the movement of a boat during tide changes ..... you will usually find - unless tidal current is particularly strong ... that the boat does not move in a straight line over the anchor and then pull in opposite direction.
The 'slack' period - boat often then succumbs just to windage and will often lay or yaw about at angles to the laid anchor. As tide starts - the boat then moves in a shallow arc with rode often creating a curve on the bed if sufficient paid out.
A well set anchor and decent rode scope should be able to handle change of tide.

BUT it is good seamanship to check at intervals to ensure you are where you want to be !!!

Rumbling of anchor CHAIN on bottom is fine IF you have all chain rode AND the bottom is not just sand or mud.

 

[michael_w]

My favorite way to anchor is to go slowly ahead drop the hook so it pays out under the hull. When you've let enough out, snub it and the boat spins round as the anchor digs in. Job done, Hang anchor ball, open beer, put kettle on, mix G&T, to your preferrence.
NB: This technique only works if you have a reasonable bow overhang and don't go too fast!

 

[dunedin]

I only anchor in extreme emergency- circa 5 times inthe last 30 years

Each to their own, but that is your loss. Many of the best places in the UK (and indeed the world) are not cluttered by marinas or mooring buoys. To give a few fairly local example - The Treshnish Isles, The Shiant Isles, St Kilda. And another 500 or so anchorages in NW Scotland. Anchoring also the best way to see the Isles of Scilly, Sark, Lindisfarne, Swedish archipelago etc etc.

I have anchored more than 5 times in a single day (in different places - not due to dragging!). And certain 100 or more times each year.
I try to set the anchor well, and use an anchor alarm app (Anchor) only when breezy or otherwise some risk of change in weather or tide.

Ironically, the only time in 25 years when I have needed to stay up all night on watch was ……… on a pontoon in a harbour! With boat breaking waves coming into Victoria “marina” in Guerrnsey In a brisk NE wind.

 

[Refueler]

I love anchoring ... hate the getting to / from shore !!

 

[RupertW]

Vessels go astern! That is the correct terminology for manoeuvring a vessel at sea. Ahead and Astern. 40 years abaft the mast tells me so!

But I’m not going astern in this scenario. I’m engaging reverse gear and putting revs up high.

 

[Daydream believer]

Each to their own, but that is your loss. , Lindisfarne,

I bet I have been to Lindisfarne a hell of a lot more times than you have & I do not find it in the least bit inviting. Try motoring across the causway as the tide comes in will give you something to remember.

I get seriously seasick at anchor. I have laid 2 moorings, for my Squib & my launch & often if I am on my launch waiting for the tide to lift a mooring airbag off the beach I have had to drop the mooring & go for a motor round to clear the sick feeling.

When I first had my cruiser I had to put it on a mooring for 4 months, until I managed to get a marina berth. I found it a hopeless task getting on & off & so would not go aboard as much as I wanted to. I also noticed on several occasions in wind against tide how it would shear about. I have seen it do complete 360 degree turns in windy weather. So I doubt that it would be reliable at anchor.

Wherever I go I ALWAYS go to a marina. I enjoy navigating in & out of new ports, stepping ashore, meeting people, going for a local pint. I certainly do not want the hassle of pumping up a dinghy , rowing ashore etc & then deflating & re packing. Far too much work for little reward.

I also enjoy being able to sleep at night knowing that the boat is reasonably safe. Sitting in the cockpit watching the world go by & the antics of boat arrivals & departures is something I enjoy. I have just had 3 weeks in Ostend & it was really great. Just my kind of holiday.

Here on the east coast that does not mean sitting up a muddy creek looking at a muddy bank, or some broken down jetty, a sunken hulk, or whatever. Having spent so much time living in the highlands, I can asure you that one rocky crag does tend to look a bit like the next one after a few years.

 

[Refueler]

But I’m not going astern in this scenario. I’m engaging reverse gear and putting revs up high.

Master to Cadet :

'Full reverse'

Cadet to Master :

'Pardon ????'

Master to Cadet :

'Full astern !!'

Cadet to Master :

'Full astern'

KERCHING ......

 

[FairweatherDave]

My advice to the OP......if this is your first night at anchor follow all the good practice here, but chose a forecast with a sensible wind strength, no more than a force 4 absolute max. My own experience of anchor alarms is they just generate a lot of stress........the time to learn to use one is once you have experience of anchoring and transits. I've tried to use one a few times and invariably switch them off. Is the only way to use one to start it just as the anchor hits the sea bed? Bit tricky at the bow as I lay out the chain.

 

[RupertW]

My advice to the OP......if this is your first night at anchor follow all the good practice here, but chose a forecast with a sensible wind strength, no more than a force 4 absolute max. My own experience of anchor alarms is they just generate a lot of stress........the time to learn to use one is once you have experience of anchoring and transits. I've tried to use one a few times and invariably switch them off. Is the only way to use one to start it just as the anchor hits the sea bed? Bit tricky at the bow as I lay out the chain.

Normally when using an anchor alarm I set it many minutes after actually dropping the anchor, which makes sense as the anchor may not have hit the ground exactly where the boat was when I dropped it and will certainly have moved a metre or three as I’ve dug it in, increasing to hard reverse. I set it back in the cockpit at my leisure, moving the anchor symbol on the map to the length of the boat plus the length of chain I have out in the direction the boat is pointing. Then maybe an hour or two later when the tracks show the outline of a slice of a circle it’s easy to see where the centre must be and I slightly adjust the anchor symbol to there.

It’s all rough and ready anyway as I always create a wider circle to avoid false alarms.

But sleeping soundly is the aim. 90% of that is knowing the seabed is good and so you aren’t going anywhere. The icing on the cake is the alarm waking me up if anything unexpected happens.

 

[Serin]

Can't believe nobody posts the good old fasioned way. Take the lead from your leadline (of course you have a leadline, don't you?) a thin line, in length somewhat longer than the radius of your likely anchoring circle, a large pan, preferably with a lid. Attach pan to line and drop the lead to the bottom. Make sure the line can run free. Balance the pan precariously on the lip of a surface such as the galley. Put on the lid. Retire to sleep the sleep of the just.

If the boat moves further than you wished or expected, the pan and lid will crash - heyho rumbelow - to the cabin sole, making enough commotion to waken the dead.

Simples!

 

[Refueler]

Anyone who drops anchor ... sits for a few minutes and then 'goes off' - is not in my book following good seamanship.

An appreciable time should be spent watching / listening / noting the plot on the plotter if you have one. You should be CONFIDENT of the boats holding before even thinking about anything else.

It may not only be YOUR boat at risk - but others nearby ...

 

[Refueler]

Can't believe nobody posts the good old fasioned way. Take the lead from your leadline (of course you have a leadline, don't you?) a thin line, in length somewhat longer than the radius of your likely anchoring circle, a large pan, preferably with a lid. Attach pan to line and drop the lead to the bottom. Make sure the line can run free. Balance the pan precariously on the lip of a surface such as the galley. Put on the lid. Retire to sleep the sleep of the just.

If the boat moves further than you wished or expected, the pan and lid will crash - heyho rumbelow - to the cabin sole, making enough commotion to waken the dead.

Simples!

Gor Blimey Guv ... PBO Notebooks again !! They were brilliant publications ... pity they stopped producing them.

 

[Serin]

Gor Blimey Guv ... PBO Notebooks again !! They were brilliant publications ... pity they stopped producing them.

Never heard of 'em. I learned this method from a genuine old salt long before such things were heard of. And I've used it too. It works. Just don't try it in a bumpy anchorage.

 

[GHA]

Is the only way to use one to start it just as the anchor hits the sea bed? Bit tricky at the bow as I lay out the chain.

anchor android app lets you place the anchor "20m at 123deg" or whatever.
Just takes a few moments.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

Can't believe nobody posts the good old fasioned way. Take the lead from your leadline (of course you have a leadline, don't you?) a thin line, in length somewhat longer than the radius of your likely anchoring circle, a large pan, preferably with a lid. Attach pan to line and drop the lead to the bottom. Make sure the line can run free. Balance the pan precariously on the lip of a surface such as the galley. Put on the lid. Retire to sleep the sleep of the just.

If the boat moves further than you wished or expected, the pan and lid will crash - heyho rumbelow - to the cabin sole, making enough commotion to waken the dead.

Simples!

What a terrible idea! Limited to no swell conditions, assumes lead line doesn’t get caught on dragging anchor rode.

 

[Daydream believer]

What a terrible idea! Limited to no swell conditions, assumes lead line doesn’t get caught on dragging anchor rode.

Or seaweed catches on it.

 

[Serin]

Ah, how little I am fitted for life on the internet. Best avoided really. The problem is that the condition of my tongue is usually at least half way to the cheek and often wholly ensconced therein. The solemn old internet is so literal minded.........Anyway, I shall pick up my pans and leadline and go home to plague you no more. (But if all else fails, as it sometimes does, and you use a little common sense....you may yet be saved from running hard aground! )

 

[RunAgroundHard]

...you may yet be saved from running hard aground! )

For that sin, I can not be saved and am damned to repeat all of my sailing days.
However, I do apologise for taking your post literally and not using a modicum of interpretation.

 

[zoidberg]

Hmmm. 'Anchoring under sail'.....
Did that rather a lot when 'helping out' with a friends Rival 34 over several years. He didn't maintain the engine....

F'r example, on one memorable occasion sans enjin ( he broke the gear linkage ) we short-tacked across the North Channel in a rising NW'ly gale, into Port Ellen/Kilnaughton Bay at dead of night, and anchored under sail up close to the beach 'on the run'.

I did 3 passes to check on the sounder as best I could the nature of the bottom, laid out 30 metres of chain on deck. In about 3 m. water, parallel to the beach/wind on beam and doing about 2 kts under reduced headsail, had the anchor lowered with the chain following. Once I reckoned the hook had reached the bottom, we bore away in an arc, pulling out the chain.....

The CQR was pulled into the sand by the progressive pull of the chain, the boat's head came emphatically round, and we stopped - anchored.
And well pleased to be there.

We sailed the anchor out next morning, and made the entrance to Gallanach Bay up opposite Crinan in a breeze that died away completely to a mirror calm. Again, the anchor went down - straight down - for once again we had Hobson's Choice - with 20-30 metres of chain on top of it.
We persuaded ourselves that that was OK, for the weight would hold us there until something changed - wind or a little tide - and we'd hear the sound of the chain being dragged out. And so it proved.

The following day, working west through the Dhorus Mhor in 'cats paws', sailing the cumbersome Rival like a dinghy, was a bit more stressful.