Best Battery on board ? any comments pl ?

[Capt Popeye]

Well whilst I was away over the Christmas Period , my open Launch took too much rainwater onboard so that the Main Engine battery became underwater ; oh BGR it : The Bilge Pump appears to have failed , which came first , its a Chicken and Egg sittuation , for me , so whats best to do ?

I have decided firsly to raise the Main Battery up about 9 inch or so , that will allow for any rainwater flooding in the future ; so if I have to replace the Main Battery , which make , type is it best to replace it with ? any suggestions or experience ?

I am considering also having a second Bilge Pump fitted with a smaller battery , thats adequate for a Bilge Pump ; my thoughts are that its a 'belt n braces' set up that should give me (and boat) better protection from our BGR weather

Any suggestions much appreciated

Oh also any trcomendations for a Replacement Bilge Pump , probably a 12 v one with auto device

Thank you CP

 

[Tranona]

You don't say what size engine you have, nor what else it is used for. If just an engine start battery then a typical car battery will be fine, probably 60-70Ah for an under 40hp engine. One of the new stop start AGMs will last longer but at a premium of about 30% - less than the expected longer life. Just choose one that fits the space and has the right terminal layout. If the bilge pump does not run much and the boat is used regularly so keeping the battery charged no reason to have its own battery. If however it runs a lot and is left unattended its own battery would be a good idea, charged through a splitter from the alternator and maybe a solar panel.

 

[Stemar]

maybe a solar panel

Definitely a solar panel if practicable. It won't need to be huge most of the year but, of course, it'll do the least good when you need it most - dull, wet winter days.

As for which pump, I have a couple of these and they do the job without being silly money. They take a 3 amp fuse, so probably draw a couple of amps. I doubt they'd run more than a few minutes a day do, if you guesstimate a couple of AH a day, I'd reckon 40w of panel would keep comfortably on top of not using the boat for wet winters indefinitely. If the boat's used during the winter so the battery gets a top up from time to time, 20w should keep up.

 

[Refueler]

My Speedboat ... old Soviet Progress 4 ..... has a 7AHr SLA battery charged by a 10A Solar panel ..... the battery feeds an auto Bilge pump of 12v in the bottom of the boat - keeping her ready for use.
The battery although small has more than enough to also power my LED 'driving lamp' which serves as my searchlight ... and the LED twin nav light ....

That little setup has maintained that boat for more than 4 years now ....

Pump is a chinese copy and in fact I have another same in bottom of my main Motor Sailer .....

Here's an example of my pump ....

1100GPH Bilge Pump Automatic Kayak Marine Boat Mini Electric Submersible Pumps | eBay

In the Speedboat - I never bothered to have 3 way switch : Manual ON - OFF - Auto ... I just wired up as Auto. But in my Motor Sailer - I have a 3 way switch so I can switch on manually if needed.

As regards if you have an engine to start - as Tranona says - a typical car battery is good enough as that's what its designed for !! It could also provide the power for the bilge pump .....
Size of battery ???? If you have no extras to power as in a cabin boat etc. - then really a budget small to medium size is good enough .... assuming your engine is not big.

 

[Refueler]

My Speedboat ... old Soviet Progress 4 ..... has a 7AHr SLA battery charged by a 10A Solar panel

10A according to ebay page ... but I doubt it actually does more than 1A as its only about 12" square. I have self-adhesive Velcro patches on the boat and rear of panel to fix position.
If it really did 10A .... that SLA would not last long !!

 

[PCUK]

Wouldn't an overall cover solve the problem?

 

[Jim@sea]

(I once had a garage which sold batteries) I once had a Nauticat 33 and had to buy a new battery but it was very large and I could not get a similar one so I had to buy two large car batteries (big mistahe)
On another boat I needed a battery and was advised to go to a Tractor Dealer as the batteries they fit on tractors have to be bigger due to the large engine size. And they have a bigger turnover than Chandlers.

 

[ChromeDome]

Could you make it self-bailing?

 

[Capt Popeye]

Could you make it self-bailing?

Hi well this boat is open the decking is really boards already at water level I guess

But been down there today and thought it out ; that is , whats possible and needed ; pumped the bilges nearly dry with an auto bilge pump ; so gona fit 2 bilge pumps ; fed by 2 batteries ; one the Diesel Starting Battery , the other a smaller dedicated Bilge Pump one ; with a switch so that I( can select which pump to use ;

After research I find that there are combined Leisure and Starting Varter batteries available with double terminals fitted so that the Starter and Bilge can have dedicated battery terminals

 

[Tranona]

After research I find that there are combined Leisure and Starting Varter batteries available with double terminals fitted so that the Starter and Bilge can have dedicated battery terminals

Not sure what you mean by this - have you got a link? what are double terminals? If you want the pump to run independently of the start battery then it needs its own dedicated battery and a means of charging. The usual is to charge it from the engine alternator through a split charge system, or with a solar panel although usually both. When the engine is running both batteries are charged and when the engine is stopped the solar panel continues to top up the pump battery if necessary.

Your main paragraph was almost right, except that you can use the pump battery for both pumps and there is no need for any change over switch, just a manual switch for the manual pump. The automatic will only run when it is triggered by the level of water. You can also wire that so it can be operated manually as well.

 

[PaulRainbow]

Not sure what you mean by this - have you got a link? what are double terminals? If you want the pump to run independently of the start battery then it needs its own dedicated battery and a means of charging. The usual is to charge it from the engine alternator through a split charge system, or with a solar panel although usually both. When the engine is running both batteries are charged and when the engine is stopped the solar panel continues to top up the pump battery if necessary.

Your main paragraph was almost right, except that you can use the pump battery for both pumps and there is no need for any change over switch, just a manual switch for the manual pump. The automatic will only run when it is triggered by the level of water. You can also wire that so it can be operated manually as well.

Some batteries have traditional posts and threaded studs, pointless for this thread.

 

[ChromeDome]

Without having seen the setup this is what I'm thinking.

The problem is that (rain) water gets into the boat
-A cover would be the best risk mitigation

A system to ensure automatic pumping out can be made, redundant on several levels:
With one or two pumps
-on the same battery
-redundant, on separate batteries (and a switch for emergency interconnection)

Batteries for these pumps should withstand deep discharge. If using making a redundant system both should be large enough to keep the pump going for the desired time. As the pumps have a low-but-long consumption and the battery type survives this particular usage pattern much better than others.

The batteries need to be charged.
-Since they are potentially discharged differently, a charger with a channel for each battery (and separate charge control) is best. This should apply to both motor- and shorepower charging.

For peace of mind a water level monitor that sends an SMS on alarm, would be the thing.

The engine start battery should be kept completely out of the equation, on its own battery, to always be able to start (=charge).

 

[Refueler]

I am always interested to see others solutions and TBH - often appear to be more than needed.

Here we have an open boat .... I would assume similar situation to my speedboat ..... a simple auto start bilge pump, Sealed Lead Acid Battery charged by small Solar Panel ... any of those Trickle charge panels that you can buy for cars / caravans that stand for months ...
The amount of power needed is actually a lot less than imagined ..... my 7A/hr SLA runs that Seaflo Auto pump and charges up fine.

The main factor is to make sure the battery charges ... I kept my battery and Solar on the small side to avoid need for controller .... KISS.

The existing battery for engine could easily supply the power needed - BUT must be prevented from discharging past 55 - 60% charge level ..... so a decent solar panel and controller to maintain it.

The suggestion of a cover is of course good - but as we all know - it is not 100% answer as water has a terrible habit of finding its way in anyway ... cover will help to reduce it though.

 

[Capt Popeye]

Some batteries have traditional posts and threaded studs, pointless for this thread.

Yes you are part right PR but in my case I would much prefer the Bilge Pumps be connected indivually by Threaded Stud than the standarn Battery Terminals ; Some Leisure batteres have both Threaded Stud and Standard Terminals fitted both Pos and Neg

In this case I recon that its a good answer to my predicament

NB I hate seeing a nest of small amp cables all interwound with each other at a Battery junction

Yes a cover woukd solve the ingress of rainwater OK , but down ere its been rainin Cats n Dogs at times so If / when I am afloat the rain water would reach quite a level in the Bilges so as to cause me concern ; RE mounting the main Battery much higher , plus out of the Engine sump bay , I hope will improove the battery safety from bilge waters ; do not know yes wether the original Bilge Pump failed of the main battery failed , had to abandon boat yesterday on account of the very high winds and rain ; have diconnected all the battery wiring attachments plus held them high by a short length twine

Yes I am considering a NUMAX XV series battery , thats what was fitted when I aquired the boat , it has double connectors and is I understand a sealed for life , so hopefully no spilliage issues ; I also understand that its a deep cycle battery ; voltage accross the + and - was 8.6 V yesterday ; wether its recoverable or not I do not know ; plan to recover the battery Tues /Wed and place it on charge back home , where I have a standard 12v battery charger plus an electronic charger , which will not charge (work) if a battery is ar to low on V to start with , but appears to take a partly discharged battery up to its peak , but requires a few days to do so

Ah thank you all for your suggestions (input) my saga continues , weather permitting

 

[Spirit (of Glenans)]

Well whilst I was away over the Christmas Period , my open Launch took too much rainwater onboard so that the Main Engine battery became underwater ; oh BGR it : The Bilge Pump appears to have failed , which came first , its a Chicken and Egg sittuation , for me , so whats best to do ?

I have decided firsly to raise the Main Battery up about 9 inch or so , that will allow for any rainwater flooding in the future ; so if I have to replace the Main Battery , which make , type is it best to replace it with ? any suggestions or experience ?

I am considering also having a second Bilge Pump fitted with a smaller battery , thats adequate for a Bilge Pump ; my thoughts are that its a 'belt n braces' set up that should give me (and boat) better protection from our BGR weather

Any suggestions much appreciated

Oh also any trcomendations for a Replacement Bilge Pump , probably a 12 v one with auto device

Thank you CP

How about using a wave-powered pump ?

Force 4 Drainman Wave Activated Bilge Pump | Force 4 Chandlery

Wave Powered Bilge Pump - Wind Natural Nature Suction Boat Marine

These items look like they are operated by they are meant to tether the boat, in place of a mooring line, but obviously it would be sensible to back them up with a stout warp.

 

[Capt Popeye]

How about using a wave-powered pump ?

Force 4 Drainman Wave Activated Bilge Pump | Force 4 Chandlery

Wave Powered Bilge Pump - Wind Natural Nature Suction Boat Marine

Well thank you SoG must admit that I did not know of these pumps ; so will look into them , thank you CP

 

[Tranona]

Yes you are part right PR but in my case I would much prefer the Bilge Pumps be connected indivually by Threaded Stud than the standarn Battery Terminals ; Some Leisure batteres have both Threaded Stud and Standard Terminals fitted both Pos and Neg

In this case I recon that its a good answer to my predicament

NB I hate seeing a nest of small amp cables all interwound with each other at a Battery junction

Plenty of battery terminals to fit standard posts but with stud terminals so that you can use M8 hole ring terminals. You then have a wide choice of batteries without limiting yourself to the tiny number that have the dual terminals.
12voltplanet.co.uk/battery-terminal-clamps.html

As you can see I have used them myself for the same reason. There are more connections to be made which will use ring terminals in smaller diameter cable.

 

[KevinV]

How about using a wave-powered pump ?

Force 4 Drainman Wave Activated Bilge Pump | Force 4 Chandlery

Now that's a clever bit of kit

 

[Capt Popeye]

Plenty of battery terminals to fit standard posts but with stud terminals so that you can use M8 hole ring terminals. You then have a wide choice of batteries without limiting yourself to the tiny number that have the dual terminals.
12voltplanet.co.uk/battery-terminal-clamps.html

As you can see I have used them myself for the same reason. There are more connections to be made which will use ring terminals in smaller diameter cable.

View attachment 148957

Hi Tranona thats a great idea , I was not aware of those converter type battery connectors ; Thank you (Oh a very neat job there if I might say so)

 

[PaulRainbow]

Plenty of battery terminals to fit standard posts but with stud terminals so that you can use M8 hole ring terminals. You then have a wide choice of batteries without limiting yourself to the tiny number that have the dual terminals.
12voltplanet.co.uk/battery-terminal-clamps.html

As you can see I have used them myself for the same reason. There are more connections to be made which will use ring terminals in smaller diameter cable.

View attachment 148957

Me being picky, picky, picky :

Positive battery cable to isolator switch seems to have no heatshrink at the switch end.
Shunt cable at the battery end has no heatshrink.
Engine positive, i't shorten it to get rid of the "coil" and use red heatshrink, rather than green tape.

Not so picky (although this may be part of your "more wires to connect" comment) , the engine negative sn't connected correctly for the shunt. The engine battery cable needs to go to the "load" terminal of the shunt, as does the bable to the block/starter/alternator. I would suggest a terminal post or busbar, short cable from the shunt and all other negatives going to the post/busbar.