Best age for our 'new to us' yacht

[pcatterall]

The group we have got together want to buy a 30-36 foot yacht in Spain, all group members are keen on DIY and have a range of skills. We are prepared to do quite a bit of work but preferably while being able to use the boat!
we cant afford anything younger than about 20 years ! I personally feel that only yachts younger than 10 years should be expected to have remained free from major faults, Between 10 and 20 years faults will be starting to show and after 20 years faults will be fairly obvious but owners may have started to sort them out and issues with particular models will be better known and can be looked for.
Do group members have ( rule of thumb) ideas about how yachts age against purchase cost and against likely future costs? We ran our 1974 Neptunian for the last 15 years and spent only around £5k for major and minor bits ( included a new main!) perhaps we were lucky!!??

 

[Sticky Fingers]

I’d be far more concerned about buying the best boat for the Med in the best condition possible, than choosing something based simply on how old it is.

If you want a renovation project, do bear in mind that you have language and distance between you and the boat.

 

[DoubleEnder]

Age not important. Condition of major items is what matters: standing rigging, sails, engine, upholstery, these are expensive. Avoid teak decks. Avoid manky sagging head and hull linings. Don’t worry about electronics. Depth sounder is good. VHF is good. Everything else is optional.
So a 40 or even 50 year old boat could be way better than a 2005 boat depending on condition. Though the layout, design and configuration may not be what you want.

 

[fredrussell]

…So a 40 or even 50 year old boat could be way better than a 2005 boat depending on condition. Though the layout, design and configuration may not be what you want.

But aren’t the layout, design and configuration fairly important factors? They would be to me.

 

[Sticky Fingers]

Yes massively so in the med. it’s all about the cockpit, shaded outdoor living, cool sleeping, and suitability for stern-to berthing.

 

[Tranona]

Depending on your budget you will be looking at boats from the late 90s through to about 2010. This was the golden age of European boat building both in terms of suitability of the boat designs for Med use and the number built, driven by the expansion of the charter market. Contrary to what some might say these boats (Bavarias, Jeanneaus Beneteaus and Hanses) have stood up very well and are way better in this respect than British boats from the earlier boom years. Crucially they are focused in design and equipment for living in a hot environment and sailing well in the typical light conditions. Very different from boats built for crashing around N European waters. I learned this, thankfully before I bought, by chartering a Moody 37 in Greece, followed by a Bavaria 42 before buying a Bavaria 37 which was way superior to the Moody for that type of use. After 13 years, 7 of them chartering and a trip back to the UK. Everything was still working well and the next owners did a modest refit and took it to Spain where enjoyed another 10 years use before selling it still in excellent usable condition.

There is no ideal age and as already suggested it is condition and equipment that is all important. Suggest you go for the upper end of the size range as the difference in space from a 30' to a 36' is huge and space is key to comfortable living. Resist the temptation to buy any sort of project. Why would you want to waste valuable holiday time of fixing the boat rather than enjoying using it?

 

[Laser310]

You should consider whether a project boat is actually suitable for group ownership.

The more decisions that have to be made about spending money, the greater the possibility for disagreement.

DIY sounds great in principle, but with the boat several countries away, it might be difficult for everyone to contribute equal time and effort to the project, opening up another source of disagreement.

I can pretty confidently say that whatever your estimates of the time and money needed, they will be wrong. It will cost more money and take more time than you think.

Of course, it's possible that your group will be in perfect agreement on everything related to the restoration and use of the boat.

But, I would think pretty hard about this.

 

[Neeves]

The boat you want is probably from one of the well known yacht builders, see Tranona's list - why not look at the yachts around 36', or slightly smaller, for the 4 main builders, define which models meet your needs - and then look for those specific models on broker's lists. All of 'these' yachts will have been reviewed, there may be walk through vids.

If your group can reach a consensus on a few models post again here and see if any can be rejected, for what ever reason. Then go look at the more palatable that meet the group's needs.

Having a group defined by their DIY skills seems an odd way to buy a yacht (especially if its sitting in the Med). Better a yacht that needs no work - and you can all go sailing - unless the group really want to do some renovations.

Jonathan

 

[lustyd]

f you want a renovation project, do bear in mind that you have language and distance between you and the boat

And possibly more importantly customs, so parts, tools and materials may be a pain and may well be more expensive as a result. That alone would sway me more towards raising the purchase budget to offset against upgrading and fixing later. Assuming a boat to sail is the plan, if a project is the plan definitely buy at home.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

I have had a boat in the Med for the last 15 years or so and live 600km by car from the boat. My usage is family holidays and I work full time. Here are the issues you will face ....

Getting to the boat with all the tools and parts is expensive, it is often cheaper to pay someone to do the job rather than stump up air fares/journey costs and do the job yourself.

Taking time out to visit the boat for repairs and maintenance becomes a real drag after a while.

If you are still working, then you will want to prioritise boat use rather than boat repair for your time off work. Repairs are fun at first but soon become a chore.

Finding people locally to work on the boat who are both competent and reasonably priced is not easy, but once found will make long-distance boat ownership a lot easier.

Both the boats I've had are AWBs (Bavarias) ... the first one was an ex-charter '99 Bav 36, the currentone a '08 Bav 44 Vision ... they are superb for the med climate and the late 90s/early 2000s are holding up very well as they were built just before the mainstream boating industry was forced into looking for alternatives to hardwoods for the interiors.

My personal preference would be a Bav 36/38 or an Oceanis 393 .. but any AWB of this age will be fine. If you can find an ex-charter and all the owners are UK resident then you can buy VAT free and keep the boat on the continent under Temporary Admission.

Essentials for med cruising are rear cockpit with sugar scoop or platform with shower, full bimini, and lots of ventilation. It is possible to use 80s classics like Moodys/Westerlies but they will all be getting very tired by now and clambering in and out of the boat to go for a swim combined with cramped cockpits makes them less comfortable and convenient to live with.

 

[shanemax]

Buy a 70s early 80s fiberglass boat, they were over engineered as no one knew much about fiberglass then. I recon some of these boats will be around in another 100 years as they were built like brick _hithouses. I was on a modern Sadler the other day and you could see the sun shinning through the fiberglass towards the aft of the boat. Bit scary.

 

[Tranona]

Buy a 70s early 80s fiberglass boat, they were over engineered as no one knew much about fiberglass then. I recon some of these boats will be around in another 100 years as they were built like brick _hithouses. I was on a modern Sadler the other day and you could see the sun shinning through the fiberglass towards the aft of the boat. Bit scary.

What a load of nonsense. The OP is buying a holiday boat for the med and the sort of boat you suggest is neither suitable nor available there. You clearly know little about boat design and construction. GRP is translucent when properly wetted out so no surprise you can see light through it. Sadler is not "modern" today - it was in 1980 compared with the old heavy lumps you are suggesting and superior in almost every way.

 

[Stemar]

I could see light coming through the hull of my 1970 Snapdragon, a bout which I think most would agree meets the specification for "built like brick _hithouses." I think Tranona has it about right.

 

[mrming]

@pcatterall what is your budget? As said up thread a 90s / early 2000s AWB is likely to suit the brief well. Realistically you’re looking at €50-70k for a 34-36 footer that’s ready to sail.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

Lots of very clean boats available ...

https://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats-...e-10000,100000/year-1998,2005/sort-price:asc/

... and it's a buyers market at the moment.

 

[nevis768]

I bought a 2003 Bav early this year, it had done 400 engine hours, original engine, and it was like a new boat. It had also been fitted with top of the range electronics. It's a buyers market as others have said. Proper sailors keep their boats in Scotland:}

 

[colind3782]

Funnily enough I know a 1988 Furia 332 which will be coming up for sale soon in Empuriabrava!

 

[geem]

Yes massively so in the med. it’s all about the cockpit, shaded outdoor living, cool sleeping, and suitability for stern-to berthing.

I was going to recommend my 45 year old boat then until you said stern-to berthing

 

[DoubleEnder]

But aren’t the layout, design and configuration fairly important factors? They would be to me.

Absolutely. I was exaggerating I guess. But condition is still more important than build date. Yes I completely agree that you need big cockpit, swim platform or scoop, lots of shade, ventilation. And a boat that can be steered astern.
And not a project!

 

[Sticky Fingers]

A sugar scoop stern is OK-ish in med berthing assuming you have open aft cockpit, but a platform or drop transom a lot easier.