Bemused Day Skipper candidate

[jimi]

Re: If you sat up

Erm .. if this guy has "blagged it" it would be public spirited to get him off the seas as an instructor before he gets someone injured. I am also surprised at the school not checking qualifications and references? Generally its easy to suss a bullshit merchant.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[walker]

Re: If you sat up

I am not suggesting he's not qualified on paper - in some respects he seems to have a good theoretical knowledge. Its a case of he talks the talk but doesn't walk the walk.

Thank you every one for helping me think this through. I think the right thing is to write to the school in as constructive terms as possible. I will do that. As soon as I have got my certificate!

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Jools_of_Top_Cat]

Re: If you sat up

I am not a bullshit merchant.

I know bugger all about sailing, I make most of it up as I go along, the rest of the time I am winging it.

<hr width=100% size=1>Julian

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.topcatsail.co.uk>

</A>

 

[walker]

Re: If you sat up

Is this the epitomy of catamaran man - not knowing his port hull from his a**e hull, and sitting instead on the muddled mesh in the middle.

Sorry: so disturbed by this whole business that I had TWO beers while I waited for me curry.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[jimi]

Re: If you sat up

OKé .. we knew .. if you'd known anything about anything you'd have got a proper boat insteed o' yin o' yon deeveeleesh catbombinashuns .. I knew me erse fae ma gaelic so Ah bought a Bennytoe .. and ah didnae get it in Lancaster ...

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[billmacfarlane]

Southern Sailing do a mixture of moorings during the week. You'll probably spend one night in a marina and the last night up at Swanwick. The rest of the evenings/early nights you'll be busy sailing. Quite an intense week but I had huge doubts about my instructor.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[walker]

Be very interested to know what you mean by huge doubts - I really want to feel as positive about this as I can - were your doubts dispelled?

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[alant]

There is a problem with Day Skipper Courses, with candidates (1) not having any previous experience, not even a competent crew course, where the basics are learnt.

(2) candidates still are accepted on the practical course without having completed the shorebased, unable to do any of the nav. - not even knowing what a chart (map to some) is or what a plotter does. This puts the other candidates at a disadvantage, since the instructor is now expected to cover both theory & practice together for these people. Although the RYA do not require any previous knowledge.

(3) although sanctioned by the RYA (& great business/work for schools & instructors), there is no way that anyone can gain the required amount of experience and skills by simply going on 3 x 2 day weekends - when most people arrive on a Friday (which can be as late as 2100hrs+) it is simply not possible to get any decent "coastal passages" done (also since they expect to go up the pub, or dine ashore on Saturday night). These 3 x 2 days are not even consecutive. There should only be a minimum 5 days practical or 9 days combined theory/practical. RYA requirement previously being "about 5 days taken on a continuous basis"

(4) Many candidates expect to 'pass' just by turning up - no prep ("but my girlfriend is doing her YM & I've helped her with the theory, so i'm ready") & no effort whilst on the course, but because they are achievers in their day job, expect instructors to sign off stuff which they simply cannot or have not done.

(5)As diligent as most instructors are, schools will not continue to provide work if candidates are not allowed to 'pass'. I try to assess on the basis of 'is this person able to responsibly take a boat +crew out & return safely under reasonable conditions'. But this is often not an easy decision to make.

The RYA course syllabus is much too extensive to properly cover in the time available. Areas such as "Understands and is able to carry out maintenance tasks." & "Knows how to change fuel and water filters, pump impellers and bleed fuel system" should be covered on properly dedicated courses. On a D/S course how much of this can be taught?
With regard to reefing, I, wind permitting, often teach this whilst still moored up. With everyone participating as 'skipper' so they get the basics in a safe environment. Also there should be a briefing & debriefing for all candidates, so they know what is expected and results-gives them an opportunity to comment as well.


<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[davidbuttriss]

As a YM instructor myself I personally brief and undertake MOB as soon as I can and practise a number of times every day during all courses I instruct.
However, D/S over 2 weekends, 2+3 days is very hard to cover all aspects in depth and with the break in between people find it hard to retain all they have been taught the previous weekend.
Finally check the RYA's D/S criteria, I am sure you will find that they are not asking for ocean passage standard skippers, merely somebody who knows there own, their crew's and boats strengthes and weakness', in an area they are familiar with during the daylight hours. Driving lessons gets you a liscence then out on the road alone is when skills are honed, or not in some cases.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[BustinAround]

Hmmmm, are you sure that's actually a requirement? I did my ICC (so I could sail to holland) which is a one day test, and the instructor gave me a day skipper too...
To be fair I've got lots of experience (sailing since a wee nipper and enough miles for a yacht master ocean) just no qualifications because I'm tight and they're expensive.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[alant]

RYA Day Skipper - "Ability after course - Skipper a small yacht in familiar waters by day". What constitutes "familiar waters" when many are doing D/S simply to go flotilla sailing in the Med is another question.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[walker]

I suppose in these circumstances the presence of a lead boat that are familiar with the waters, brief on the dangers, and are more or less on hand to help out in case of difficulty offsets the familiarity qualification to the competence level.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[jimi]

I had a colleague who got his day skipper and chartered on flotilla in Greece with his girlfriend. One morning they were tardy in leaving and the lead skipper said see that headland there, our destination is just around it. Well a couple hours later S####r set sail after 2 hours the headland looked no nearer and after 4 hours it was on marginally closer, he was now out of radio contact and had no phone signal.
He managed to contact a passing yacht which guided him into the nearest harbour (in mainland Greece about 60 miles from where he should have been). He only managed to contact the charter company by phoning their UK HO!!!

He said afterwards that the headland that the lead skipper had indicated was so close, he thought it could'nt have been that so presumed it was the one on the horizon behind.. which was in fact a mountain on the mainland!!

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[walker]

Just shows all the qualifications in the world won't compensate for a total absence of common sense, nor get you to a destination if you don't know what it is.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[jamesjermain]

Re: mealy mouthed

I can only reiterate what others have said. Since you, understandably, don't want to blow your certificate and waste good money, you are committed to doing the second part. Under the circumstances you must do this as if nothing was wrong, though if he really goes off at a tangent I would query his actions at the time. To argue the toss over everything during the course will be counter productive and only confuse the other candidates more.

It may be that after the second session his motives and methods will become clear. It may also be that he was haivng an off-day first time round (who am I kidding?). But if episode two is just as bad you have to tackle him, the school then the RYA and you should also make your concerns known to the other pupils. They will become nvolved anyway if the school and/or the RYA conduct an investigation.

<hr width=100% size=1>JJ

 

[Robin]

Initiative like that should have qualified him for a YM pass! /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif

<hr width=100% size=1><font size=1>Sermons from my pulpit are with tongue firmly in cheek and come with no warranty!</font size=1>

 

[ubuysa]

Wen I did my DS theory we had an instructor who undobtedly knew his stuff, but who couldn't teach to save his life. We were the first class he'd taught. The week went OK in the end but I did contact the principal of the sailing school afterwards and passed on what I hope were constructive comments. The principle did contact me later and thanked me for my input. If you don't tell the school how will things ever improve?

BTW. The said instructor was NOT alant who has posted here already - he taught me ocean theory and was one of the best instructors I've ever had. Creep..creep...

Tony C.

<hr width=100% size=1>There are 10 kinds of people, those who understand binary and those who don't.

 

[Melody]

We're just going through the recognition process to become an RYA sailing school so I'm fairly up to speed on the regulations. RYA Day Skipper is a MINIMUM of 5 days on board; if it is taken over weekends rather than consecutive days it should be 3 weekends.

The RYA recommend that MOB drill should be done as soon as possible. However, many instructors prefer to wait until students have more of a feel for handling the boat, so that may be why he postponed it. What sort of safety briefing did you get before you left?

When you motored back, did you spend the time doing something useful like Q&A sessions on lights, buoys, knots, weather, etc.?

The ROR incidents sound absolutely shocking! The RYA are very keen to monitor standards so definitely report it to them.

Finally, are you sure the person teaching you was a YM Instructor, not a Cruising Instructor appointed by the school? I can't believe any YMI would behave like this - its a hard qualification to get.

Would be interested to know the results.

Regards

Melody



<hr width=100% size=1>Melody McKay Burton
Yacht Valentine, Greece

 

[billmacfarlane]

No they weren't. He had a very intimidating manner, and one of the guys who was doing Day Skipper was very nervous and the instructor's manner made him worse, not better. A couple of times I found myself intervening when he got into difficulty as there was nothing forthcoming from the instructor. When the candidate asked the instructor afterwards what went wrong he actually said " Well Bill told you what you were doing wrong". That isn't the attitude I expect from an instructor.

<hr width=100% size=1>