Belgian flag used by Spanish yachts

[greeny]

Unfortunately still a lot of "foreigners", who have no personal UK residence are British flagged. Increasingly, many Portuguese are flagging in Begium, Holland and Germany, to avoid regs. here.

Agreed, and some Portuguese are now dropping their ssr registration and looking for ways to change to other european states due to the lack of clarity around what Brexit will bring.

 

[GTom]

Agreed, and some Portuguese are now dropping their ssr registration and looking for ways to change to other european states due to the lack of clarity around what Brexit will bring.

Also that SSR requires residency in the UK or one of its dependencies. As I heard it's getting more and more enforced, "friend's address" won't help anymore.

 

[Tranona]

Agreed, and some Portuguese are now dropping their ssr registration and looking for ways to change to other european states due to the lack of clarity around what Brexit will bring.

There is nothing in Brexit that will have any effect on yacht registration. As I pointed out earlier it is nothing to do with the EU.

So, no lack of clarity, just perhaps understandable ignorance.

 

[Tranona]

Local laws apply then (licence is necessary).

Not necessarily (and commonly not at all). Coastal states have the right to impose local laws, but few do, relying on the principle of Comity - that is respect for another state's laws.

Where states have imposed local laws they are usually qualified and restricted to boats and/or owners who are considered residents. Portugal and France are examples of these. For genuine visitors there are no restrictions and flag state rules are respected.

 

[JumbleDuck]

There is nothing in Brexit that will have any effect on yacht registration. As I pointed out earlier it is nothing to do with the EU.

So, no lack of clarity, just perhaps understandable ignorance.

It might be a little harder for Portuguese yacht owners to claim that they live in the UK if they didn't have permission to live in the UK.

 

[capnsensible]

It might be a little harder for Portuguese yacht owners to claim that they live in the UK if they didn't have permission to live in the UK.

Have you ever been to Turkey? There seems to be a tax dance there that allows, somehow, Turks to register their boats in one of the US states like Delaware to gain advantage. It surprises me to see so many Star Spangled flags a flutter in the marinas.

Point is, there always seems to be a dodge somewhere.

 

[neil1967]

I believe that Turkish taxes for personal ownership of yachts are very high, but less so for yachts owned by companies. It is apparently very easy to set up a company in Delaware, so that's what the Turks do, and therefore end up with US registration by default.

 

[Tranona]

It might be a little harder for Portuguese yacht owners to claim that they live in the UK if they didn't have permission to live in the UK.

But that is nothing to do with the EU. It is still the flag state that determines conditions for registration and then police those conditions. Changing to Belgian is easier because there is no residence requirement.

 

[Tranona]

Have you ever been to Turkey? There seems to be a tax dance there that allows, somehow, Turks to register their boats in one of the US states like Delaware to gain advantage. It surprises me to see so many Star Spangled flags a flutter in the marinas.

Point is, there always seems to be a dodge somewhere.

Not a dodge. Perfectly legal as Delaware only requires the corporation to be resident, not the shareholders. Same in principle as the UK Part 1, but less onerous paperwork. As said a way for Turks to avoid high local taxes, but comes with some constraints on usage as I understand it.

 

[GTom]

But that is nothing to do with the EU. It is still the flag state that determines conditions for registration and then police those conditions. Changing to Belgian is easier because there is no residence requirement.

There are quite a few red ensign jurisdictions to choose from as well. If the boat is VAT paid, I don't see any problem with a Channel islands or IOM reg. Their Part 1 doesn't seem more expensive than the Belgian flag.

 

[Tranona]

There are quite a few red ensign jurisdictions to choose from as well. If the boat is VAT paid, I don't see any problem with a Channel islands or IOM reg. Their Part 1 doesn't seem more expensive than the Belgian flag.

Yes, many CI registered boats moving freely round the EU waters. However, owners often report increased attention from customs officers because they are non EU flags, so best to make sure you have all documentation to show the boat can move freely. Particular issue in greece as non EU boats require a different cruising permit if they are on TI so CI flagged boats have had extra attention in the past.

 

[GrahamM376]

Also that SSR requires residency in the UK or one of its dependencies. As I heard it's getting more and more enforced, "friend's address" won't help anymore.

Need to be on the electoral role, which is easy enough. Have met several large SSR power boat crews speaking Russian, lets hope they look somewhere else after Brexit.

 

[Blue Sunray]

Need to be on the electoral role (sic),.

Incorrect, indeed some people who are eligible for SSR would not be eligible to vote.

 

[GrahamM376]

Incorrect, indeed some people who are eligible for SSR would not be eligible to vote.

As you are no doubt aware, every year, every householder has to declare who (within certain perammeters) is living at the address. Various gov. agencies use the electoral role as do banks, insurance companies etc. to verify residence. If someone declares to the registry that they are resident, they should appear on the role somewhere.

 

[Blue Sunray]

As you are no doubt aware, every year, every householder has to declare who (within certain perammeters) is living at the address. Various gov. agencies use the electoral role as do banks, insurance companies etc. to verify residence. If someone declares to the registry that they are resident, they should appear on the role somewhere.

I don't think that you understand what the electoral roll is (note correct spelling, though register is the official term). Try here for education: https://www.gov.uk/electoral-register

See also:

Persons eligible for the UK Small Ships register are: (a) British citizens; (b) Persons who are nationals of an EU or EEA country other than the UK and who are established in the UK in accordance with Articles 48 and 52 of the EU Treaty; (c) British Dependent Territories citizens; British Overseas citizens; persons who under the British Nationality Act 1991 are British subjects; persons who under the Hong Kong (British Nationality) Order are British Nationals Overseas, and (d) British Commonwealth citizens not falling within those paragraphs.

 

[GrahamM376]

I'm well aware what the roll is and the terms for SSR registration but it seems you are not aware just how many uses roll has for checking up on people, including whether they are listed at the address they say they live at. The SSR registry are said to be checking applicants details these days to confirm they are established in the UK and/or are ordinarily resident at the address given.

 

[Blue Sunray]

I'm well aware what the roll is and the terms for SSR registration but it seems you are not aware just how many uses roll has for checking up on people, including whether they are listed at the address they say they live at. The SSR registry are said to be checking applicants details these days to confirm they are established in the UK and/or are ordinarily resident at the address given.

Well done for sorting out your spelling. I will type this slowly for you - YOU DO NOT "Need to be on the electoral role"

 

[GrahamM376]

Well done for sorting out your spelling. I will type this slowly for you - YOU DO NOT "Need to be on the electoral role"

f
FFS (spell that out if you want) We were discussing Johnny foreigner getting SSR registration without meeting the UK residence regs. A few I have come across just have their names put on the electoral roll at a relative or friend's address. That is the most foolproof way they have found for if and when any branch officialdom checks up on them. Do you now understand or isn't that simple enough for you?

 

[Tin Tin]

There are quite a few red ensign jurisdictions to choose from as well. If the boat is VAT paid, I don't see any problem with a Channel islands or IOM reg. Their Part 1 doesn't seem more expensive than the Belgian flag.

Jersey: starting from £600

http://oceanskies.com/pricing/jersey-yacht-registration-pricing/

IoM: £160 first registration, then £122 annually.

https://www.iomshipregistry.com/fees/pleasure-yachts/

Belgium: €147 for 5 years

https://mobilit.belgium.be/fr/resource/tarifs_navigation_de_plaisance_2018

Also, contrary to what some have posted on here, there DOES seem to be a nationality/residency requirement.

Si le propriétaire est une personne physique: un certificat de nationalité et de résidence ou une impression des données de la carte d’identité électronique avec un lecteur de cartes .

https://mobilit.belgium.be/fr/navigation/navigation_de_plaisance/bateau/lettre_de_pavillon

This might explain why we now see fewer and fewer Belgian flagged boats in France.
And those that we do see, are Belgian owned/crewed.

 

[GTom]

Maybe there are corporate stuctures involved in the offers of various agencies then...

Detailed requirements here, if my rusty French is right, 50% must be owned by a belgian national or 100% by a belgian corporation:

https://mobilit.belgium.be/fr/navigation/navigation_de_plaisance/bateau/immatriculation