Time Out
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I think the key turning point will be when / if they get the last known recorded wind speed from the instruments.
"Bayesian" s/y sinks in Palermo
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38mess
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With all due respect what would a RN warship commander know about yacht stability? Most of my RN captains didn't know what day it was most of the time.
capnsensible
Well-known member
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The UK's Marine Accident Investigation Branch (MAIB) has confirmed it is investigating the sinking of the superyacht.
The organisation will look to determine the causes and circumstances of the incident.
A team of four MAIB inspectors have been in Porticello today to carry out a "preliminary assessment", according to PA.
"The MAIB is investigating the foundering of the UK registered large yacht Bayesian off the northern coast of Sicily on 19 August 2024," a statement read.
"It would not be appropriate for the MAIB to comment further while the investigation is ongoing. "
The MAIB is looking into the incident because the Bayesian was flying a British flag - but the Italian Coastguard said the MAIB was not involved in the search and rescue operation and that it did not request assistance.
The UK's Marine Accident Investigation Branch (MAIB) has confirmed it is investigating the sinking of the superyacht.
The organisation will look to determine the causes and circumstances of the incident.
A team of four MAIB inspectors have been in Porticello today to carry out a "preliminary assessment", according to PA.
"The MAIB is investigating the foundering of the UK registered large yacht Bayesian off the northern coast of Sicily on 19 August 2024," a statement read.
"It would not be appropriate for the MAIB to comment further while the investigation is ongoing. "
The MAIB is looking into the incident because the Bayesian was flying a British flag - but the Italian Coastguard said the MAIB was not involved in the search and rescue operation and that it did not request assistance.
Wandering Star
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BBC News are saying the mast is reported by divers to still be intact and attached on the seabed.
E39mad
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Very sad.
I am not sure about all the issue with the keel up theories. Generally with a keel up even a large boat will "skid" across the water rather than "grab hold" when the keel is fully down.
Mark-1
Well-known member
Well yes, but if it's hit in a instant by a 200kt gust that knocks it flat for 2 minutes that slewing action will never get started and they'd be far better off with the keel down *if* the keel is heavy. But we're told in this thread the keel may have been light with all the ballast in the hull so who knows.
E39mad
Well-known member
From what I can find from the "tinternet" if that's anything reliably to go by, it looks like it is a centreboard design with a pivoting centreplate, rather than a ballasted keel which retracts almost vertically inside the hull.
Dogone
Active member
I know how they work in 70’ to 105’ yachts. I’ve seen 3 in action. They are all two button affairs with dedicated pumps and electronic control gear.
Mark-1
Well-known member
I can't really make anything out. I can't see a bulb though.
Steve_N
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Looks that way. This is from the ketch version (the 4x sisterships are all ketches) of Perini's Ron Holland designed 56M series:
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Dogone
Active member
It had better be a big one. 500 tons to lift when full of air is an extraordinary crane. Full of water, several times that.
RunAgroundHard
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Keel up, keel down, it doesn't matter. My experience on moorings and at anchor in many boat types, including motor boats, sheltering from gales, is that a yacht can be healed quite far in very strong and sudden gusts. The hull still slews and the boat still heals, it is not either or.
However, we will need to see what the investigation concludes, as it may be something else altogether.
Mark-1
Well-known member
Thanks, that's brilliant.
Of course that centre board could still be very heavy and seriously contribute to stability. (Although the lifting mechanism suggests it isn't.)
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RunAgroundHard
Well-known member
Water density reduction due to external factors does happen. It features as a major risk in my industry if shallow gas breaches the seabed and flows to surface. The sea water becomes full of gas bubbles and the effective density reduces and the vessel can sink, lots of examples over the decades. Modern floating drilling vessel, in deep water, just drive off, as they are not anchored. However, anchored vessels, it is a bigger risk, the initial bubbles push the vessel to the side, then the anchors pull tight, the vessel heals, keels over sinks. There are examples of the vessel being pushed away into stable water by the bubbles. Anchored drilling vessels have quick release systems to allow this to happen these days.
If you google Ocean Odyssey Dissater 1988, you will see a famous picture of the rig healing over in bubbly water, or the Ocean Vanguard, which is more dramatic West Vanguard blowout
Of course, these are different sources of energy to impact the water, one is deep from oil and gas breaching to surface, the other is a surface event. Interesting comments though, and it fits with the impact of rigs at anchor when struck by bubbly water. But is it even a phenomena that a water spout could generate? Comments earlier in the thread indicate that a cargo ship sailed into one and the ware spout formation collapsed.
Capt Popeye
Well-known member
Yes a truely disaster , re the Onlookers some saying that the Mast appeared to brake , my take is that from the distances in question , its more likely that the Mast went over due to an act by the Wind / Spout , Weather, it going over so quickly that an onlooker with that weather would not be able to distinguish between a mast breaking ie disaperaring and a Mast going over to horizontal , then staying there , ie , under water , so guess that the recovery teams will be able to determine whats what ?
I cannot see why the recovery teams /have not cut the mast free so that the Craft can right itself ,o that its far easier and therfore quicker to search the Boat ; After all I recall that the Herald of Free Enterprise rescues were delayed by the Ship lying on her side so the cabins were mainly half full of sea water , with any occupants not being able to get out of the cabins owing to the Cabin layout preventing access throuh the cabin doors ; so just hoped that the mast removed the access will improove ; but after all this time I guess passengers sucumbed to the Cold water ?
I helped fish/drag a fella out of the River Dart a few years ago, he had slipped whilst transfering from his Dinghy onto his Boat , leaving Him holding onto boat lines but upto his neck in the tidal sream , unable to free him self , he was just loosing Body Temperature very quickly , : by the time we draged him on board our craft , he was VERY VERY cold to the touch , I just hoped that he was looked after by the Ambulace that was called out , hopefully placing blankets around him : Our craft a Dart Sailability did not appear to have such a body warmer aboard ; unfortunately
I cannot see why the recovery teams /have not cut the mast free so that the Craft can right itself ,o that its far easier and therfore quicker to search the Boat ; After all I recall that the Herald of Free Enterprise rescues were delayed by the Ship lying on her side so the cabins were mainly half full of sea water , with any occupants not being able to get out of the cabins owing to the Cabin layout preventing access throuh the cabin doors ; so just hoped that the mast removed the access will improove ; but after all this time I guess passengers sucumbed to the Cold water ?
I helped fish/drag a fella out of the River Dart a few years ago, he had slipped whilst transfering from his Dinghy onto his Boat , leaving Him holding onto boat lines but upto his neck in the tidal sream , unable to free him self , he was just loosing Body Temperature very quickly , : by the time we draged him on board our craft , he was VERY VERY cold to the touch , I just hoped that he was looked after by the Ambulace that was called out , hopefully placing blankets around him : Our craft a Dart Sailability did not appear to have such a body warmer aboard ; unfortunately
Capt Popeye
Well-known member
Have not noticed any mention of Tunderstorms , as I guess that Metal Mast would act as a Metal Lightening conductor
Fr J Hackett
N/A
Dutch salvage companies have lifted far bigger than that.
billskip
Well-known member
To bring it to the surface it weighs less because you have to deduct the displaced water weight. (1 cubic mtr of concrete is about 2.4 tons, but submerged it's about 1.4 tons)
500 tons is 500 cubic meters of water space, so you need air bags of that size to inflate, to inflate those at that depth needs upwards of 100psi air pressure but the time it will take can be calculated.
They will drain the water out before lift the boat onto a platform, but I would have thought they would right it and float it ashore.
Capt Popeye
Well-known member
Reguarding the use of Life Jackets aboard , well Wewere on board a Ship cruising northern Britain many years ago ,this Ships Main Generator failed when we were in the middle of the Irish Sea , at night ; As a pasenger we instructed to stay in our Cabins till daylight , the ONLY electrical lighting was the Emergency lighting , which was partly on over night ; WE (late Wife decided to dress into warm clothes , trousers and vests plus jumpers ; lying on top of our Bunks ; so that if Ship had a problem and we went overboard we would be as war as could be ; We also wore our Life Jackets just in case of the need ; We also packed our suitcases just in case ; well we survived that long Night ok , thankfully , but we were prepared just in case our Ship was struck by anothewr Ship in the night ;
So guess that the Yacht crew and others should really have slept in their Life Jackets ,me growing up in a Commercial Fishing /Boating life on the Suffolk Coast taught us to wear a Life Jacket over any nigh time sleeping on board at Sea ; we lost friends etc on that Coast due to events happening at night whilst Crew were asleep , and at Anchor ; THeir craft being found drifting in the North Sea; but no sign of the Crew ;Clothing though found aboard suggested that the Crew took to their Bunks to await re floating of a Sand Bank ; terrile just terrible an event
So guess that the Yacht crew and others should really have slept in their Life Jackets ,me growing up in a Commercial Fishing /Boating life on the Suffolk Coast taught us to wear a Life Jacket over any nigh time sleeping on board at Sea ; we lost friends etc on that Coast due to events happening at night whilst Crew were asleep , and at Anchor ; THeir craft being found drifting in the North Sea; but no sign of the Crew ;Clothing though found aboard suggested that the Crew took to their Bunks to await re floating of a Sand Bank ; terrile just terrible an event
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