Bay of Biscay or Canal de Deux Mers??

[t-rose]

Hello All!

This is my first time posting to this forum, so please be gentle with me

My boyfriend and I are planning to set off from Kent in the UK end of April/beginning of May to embark on what we hope will eventually be a complete circumnavigation (eek!). We've been planning it for years and are pretty excited and nervous to say the least.

However, we're already stumped. For years we've dreamed of sailing around the Med for a bit before crossing the Atlantic, but now the time has come and we're still not sure exactly what route to take to get down to the Med. I'm sure this question has been asked a thousand times, but please forgive me for asking again- I did look through the forums for information, but couldn't quite find what I was looking for. Please feel free to direct me to any relevant threads from the past.

We own a Southerly 38, which has a lifting keel, and so the French canals are a viable option for us. However, we also want to get some more offshore experience before our Atlantic crossing (which will be this November- we've signed up to the ARC), and so we thought crossing Biscay would be a good way of doing this, plus will get us south quickly. We already have friends, who are experienced sailors, lined up to crew for us, if we take this option.

But what to do?! Our priority is to get to the Med and enjoy sailing in SUNSHINE before passing through the Straight of Gibraltar around beginning of Sept. But I'm feeling pretty nervous about how little time we have to see the areas we're interested in: namely, French Med (maaaybe Corsica) and Belearics. Med coast of Spain holds very little interest for us- but if we enter the Med through Gib in June (we're thinking, given we'll depart Kent in May and gun it down there as quickly as possible), then that's the region that makes most sense to explore, navigationally and geographically speaking.

Dilemma! Am open to any tips or comments! Either option we choose will have advantages and disadvantages, and would be grateful for any thoughts. Hopefully I've been clear, but please ask any questions if you need clarification.

Thankyou!

 

[RAI]

Slow down, take your time, there is lots to see underway. The Brittany coast takes a lot of exploring, so do the Spanish Rias. Don't miss out. Plan to reach Lagos by winter. Plenty of time to potter into the Med next year. It's pretty much day-sailing from one port to the next. Must you really stress yourselves by doing Biscay all in one go?

 

[KellysEye]

If you are doing the ARC you have to do two one hundred miles passages non stop, my advice is cross Biscay non stop to Spain with the first port of call Bayonna. Then have a potter down the Spanish and Portuguese coasts. That will give you the offshore experience for the trip to the Canaries and the Atlantic crossing. Most boats that go in the Med never come out again so keep going south and turn right.

 

[Toutvabien]

It is a delightful dilemma to have! Whatever you choose will work out fine as long as you free yourself from ideas that you have to be in a particular place at a particular time. You will get passage making experience as your experience grows you will know what is right for your boat and your crew. Keep your options open and decide as you go.
Trying to do the Med in five months sounds like a bit of a mission to me but I am an indolent old sod who likes hanging out in places for a while.

 

[vyv_cox]

It's a shame to have to rush so much. We took a whole season to go from Holland to the Gironde, then through the Canal du Midi the following Spring. We were in the Balearics for three months and about the same in Corsica and Sardinia.

 

[GrahamM376]

Unfortunately, you've fallen into the trap of setting a timetable. The west coast of France is well worth a visit and all summer could be spent there and still miss places, same applies to the Spanish Rias. You could do the west coast south to LaRochelle and then head SW to somewhere around Viveiro, which should give you the 100m passage if you need it. From there, again you could spend a season heading down to the Algarve, lots to see just a bus or train ride from any of the ports.

Although SW Spain and Gib are worth a visit, many are very disappointed with the western Med and you will have little time to explore further east.

 

[rivonia]

You are doing what my wife and I did many many years ago. Go for it. Be brave. Sail straight across Biscay to Spain. You will always regret it if you don't.

Then cruise down the portugese coast Be very aware and keep a sharp watch at all times for the fishing nets.

Good luck and fair winds.

 

[phanakapan]

Hi, I'd save the med for another time. Potter along the south coast, find a nice weather window, and go for the Biscay crossing. (We had to motor the whole way, winds were so light!) as others have said, Bayona and the Rias are delightful; we really enjoyed the Portuguese coast, went as far south as Caiscais before heading over to Lanzarote and Gran Canaria. All the sun, foreign-ness and challenge you need. Tbh I didn't enjoy the time I spent in Gibraltar and a few places in southern Spain on a different occasion
Check out the early episodes of our blog www.sailblogs.com/member/wanderings to see what we did- (just got back from our circumnav). The furthest offshore/longest leg we had done prior to the Biscay crossing was s Ireland to Scilly isles trip.

 

[zensilence]

How wonderful to have such an adventure ahead!
You will be enjoying Christmas in St Lucia, relaxing in Carribbean sunshine with the inner satisfaction of having crossed the Atlantic!

You do NOT need to rush into the Western Med to hurry past places (quite a lot of which you admit you're not that interested in) to get to the Canaries in October.

You COULD enjoy Spring in Brittany, waiting for a really kind weather window so crossing Biscay in 3 days would give you confidence-boosting experience and the joys of a rest in A Coruña. You could then spend at least 3 months very slowly cruising and relaxing in the sun in the Rias - absolutely wonderful and not to be missed or rushed... Many people zoom past to get further south quickly, but they really miss out on wonderful anchorages and villages, the best seafood you can get, and the realisation that going slowly and relaxing and enjoying the journey is much more important than hurrying to your destination.

It is easy to get down the Portuguese coast in day sails, if you wait for the weather to suit, because despite what the pilot books might say, there are lovely places to visit and the sardines and wines are possibly even tastier than the food in the Rias... And you will probably need time to make adjustments or repairs - with several places offering excellent facilities, Lisbon included. A bit of time in the Algarve, then down to the Canaries in October and you will be all set for the Atlantic.

Why rush into the Med???!!!

Good luck and have a wonderful time

 

[AndrewB]

My vote, like others, is with Biscay.

(i) It's leisurely that way, with plenty of time to take in Brittany and the Spanish Rias, great cruising grounds in their own right and better than anything in the Western Med;
(ii) As you say, crossing Biscay (to Corunna or further west) is an excellent taster if your experience of offshore sailing is limited. Easy to get back should you discover you don't like it, whereas getting back from the Canaries is much more difficult;
(iii) If it's a complete circumnavigation you're planning, then there's a fair chance you will be able to take in the Med on the way back, specially if the Red Sea route becomes open again.

 

[t-rose]

Thankyou everyone for your fantastic comments. My partner and I have a lot of thinking to do!

It's absolutely true that we can do the med to our hearts content when we return via the suez canal (I hope).

We have spent the last two summers cruising western France, which we loved, but last year we were disappointed by the weather, so we are wanting to get bit further south this year before heading down to the canaries. The Atlantic Spanish and Portuguese coasts do sound lovely, and maybe they'll be less crowded than the med...

Thank you again for your thoughts. Now we just need the weather to get warmer so we can get going!

 

[Sea Devil]

I think the trip down the French canals is a wonderful and special experience (and I have done a circumnavigation and been up to DC and the Chesapeake) and this is the perfect opportunity to do do this trip and end up half way across the Med with Corsica, Sardinia, Turkey, Tunisia all available in one season before heading towards Gib.... I spent 4 years cruising the Mediterranean before heading out across the atlantic and enjoyed it. The Caribbean was refreshing, East Coast USA fascinating and Panama... well there the magic begins...

It is a marathon not a sprint and if the finances allow the best plan is to have no plan - sail on until you feel bored then sail onto somewhere new...

It worked for me but then different strokes for different....

fair winds

 

[zensilence]

Also worth considering that marina charges are a lot less along the Atlantic coasts of Spain & Portugal compared to Med charges!
We have a 43ft (13m) monohull, and paid daily rates (often with good deals eg 5 nights for the price of 4 -often better than Cruising Association discounts) which worked out to about £12/night at Marina Coruña, £20 at Camarinas, £26 at Muros, £18 at Combarro, a very expensive £35 in Baiona (!), then pretty much always around £25/night down Portugal (£12/night when we left boat in the water in Duoro Marina, Porto, during August on 4 week contract). We anchored in lots of other places for free.
I doubt if you would find prices this low anywhere along a Med route from the Canals to Gib...
And the £ is stronger now, so prices might effectively feel cheaper this year...

Whichever way you go, have a wonderful time!

 

[PlanB]

A few random thoughts.
Canals teach you how to handle locks. Biscay gives you more sea time and may not be as hard on the boat.
Check with your insurers whether they will impose any conditions on a Biscay crossing in terms of timings, crew numbers etc.
Don´t rush - there´s a lot of places to see out there and years in which to see them. We wish we hadn´t fixed on arriving in the Med at the end of our first summer, but had overwintered in Biscay or northern Spain.

 

[vyv_cox]

We anchored in lots of other places for free.
I doubt if you would find prices this low anywhere along a Med route from the Canals to Gib...

We spent three months in the Balearics and only paid for five nights in marinas, mainly to do laundry. Between Agde and the islands we found plenty of anchorages but didn't go further south than Barcelona.

 

[Sybarite]

Thankyou everyone for your fantastic comments. My partner and I have a lot of thinking to do!

It's absolutely true that we can do the med to our hearts content when we return via the suez canal (I hope).

We have spent the last two summers cruising western France, which we loved, but last year we were disappointed by the weather, so we are wanting to get bit further south this year before heading down to the canaries. The Atlantic Spanish and Portuguese coasts do sound lovely, and maybe they'll be less crowded than the med...

Thank you again for your thoughts. Now we just need the weather to get warmer so we can get going!

As weather can be fickle in the Spring, make sure of your weather windows before hopping across Biscay. You don't want to give yourselves a scare at the beginning of your trip.

I would say that a return via Suez is definitely a no no because of piracy considerations in the Horn of Africa and the Red Sea. I would circumnavigate keeping South of Madagascar and around the Cape. However in those waters you need to be particularly careful of weather considerations.

 

[t-rose]

As weather can be fickle in the Spring, make sure of your weather windows before hopping across Biscay. You don't want to give yourselves a scare at the beginning of your trip.

I would say that a return via Suez is definitely a no no because of piracy considerations in the Horn of Africa and the Red Sea. I would circumnavigate keeping South of Madagascar and around the Cape. However in those waters you need to be particularly careful of weather considerations.

Yes to both points! We'll make our crossing as soon as we have a decent weather window, definitely not prepared to take any risks at this stage of our experience. As for threat of piracy, we'll be taking approximately 5 years to do our circumnavigation (at a minimum), so will continue to monitor situation closely and hope things improve. We're not ruling anything out, but will absolutely choose the safest option!

 

[LadyInBed]

Your timetable is far too tight to go via the canals and see anything of the med.
To enjoy the canals I reckon 3 months, then once in the med, a month heading east round Marseille, Casis, Porquerolles, Port Cros and that's before you get to Corsica, let alone Sardinia!
Your best option in the time available is to cross Biscay. You could do that via France and cross Cameret to La Coruna, that way you get to see a bit of the french coast and have time to enjoy Atlantic Spain and Portugal.

 

[vyv_cox]

Your timetable is far too tight to go via the canals and see anything of the med.
To enjoy the canals I reckon 3 months.......

We did the Canal du Midi in 11 or 12 days and thought we had taken it easy. We certainly had whole days off in Carcassonne and another place and mostly dawdled along.

 

[Sybarite]

Your timetable is far too tight to go via the canals and see anything of the med.
To enjoy the canals I reckon 3 months, then once in the med, a month heading east round Marseille, Casis, Porquerolles, Port Cros and that's before you get to Corsica, let alone Sardinia!
Your best option in the time available is to cross Biscay. You could do that via France and cross Cameret to La Coruna, that way you get to see a bit of the french coast and have time to enjoy Atlantic Spain and Portugal.

Personally I think that it would be worth spending a couple of weeks in S. Brittany going maybe as far as La Rochelle and using that as your jumping off spot. It would give a flavour of what is to be seen to be appreciated in more detail in the future. I haven't done the Canal de Midi but my children have. Maybe they were too young at the time to appreciate it but they found it boring. However the only justification IMO for going across Biscay would be to take advantage of the rias on the way past NW Spain and Portugal. Otherwise it's just open water and they will get enough of this with the ocean crossings.

After all it is apparently a 5 year plan and so time should be taken to enjoy things along the way. If the ARC is already committed, then the first outing could be an Atlantic circuit, returning in the Spring.