Bavaria 55 / Legend 55

[Judders]

With Bavaria launching their version next week, I have to say, this is an area of the market I have never understood. Why have something so big 'built down to a price'. Okay, so we don't all want and certainly can not all afford a Swan of that size, but why pay so much money for a boat that is much too large to use for marina hopping, much to cheap to pose in Cannes/Monaco etc and probably not really up to much else?

 

[bobgoode]

I guess that there are sufficient numbers of lottery winners who simply want a BIG boat to show off in.

 

[bbg]

I disagree. I actually do understand this part of the market. Partly it is for skippered charters, and partly it is for people who can afford a nice 45 footer, but would love to have something a bit bigger if they could afford it.
The part of the market I really don't understand is the large Swans / Oysters. If you can afford a 70, 80 or 90 footer, why do you want a production boat? Surely getting a custom-designed boat at that size will not be significantly more expensive (if at all) than a production boat. And you can have something that is both unique and exactly the way you want it.

 

[HoratioHB]

Having lived in a 42 footer for two years I can see the benefit of a bigger boat especially as modern rigs are so much easier to handle with limited crew - SWMBO and me. If we go off again (highly likely) I will be looking for the biggest boat I think I can handle. I agree they would be no good for marina hopping but when you live on board, marinas are a rare luxury. I've sailed Bavarias and although they are not top of the range they seem pretty well built and seaworthy. A Legend (if it has a proper rudder stock) gives damn good accomodation even if it sails like a caravan.
We were in Antigua last year, next to a brand new 55 foot Oyster, who had major problems, over 20 defects awaiting warranty approval, so buying up market expensive boats does not seem to guarantee quality.

Mind you when I win that lottery...........

 

[Judders]

I can't say for Oysters, but all Swan's are pretty much bespoke. With the exception of the two one design classes designed with the NYYC, the hull numbers are generally very low on each mould.

I guess my point is, what would one do with a 55' Legend or Bavaria?

They would certainly make a pretty poor investment as a charter boat. The ware on Lutine, being in more or less full time skippered charter, is significant and we have a Swan for the durability just as much as for the prestiege.

 

[Tranona]

I can't say for Oysters, but all Swan's are pretty much bespoke. With the exception of the two one design classes designed with the NYYC, the hull numbers are generally very low on each mould.

I guess my point is, what would one do with a 55' Legend or Bavaria?

They would certainly make a pretty poor investment as a charter boat. The ware on Lutine, being in more or less full time skippered charter, is significant and we have a Swan for the durability just as much as for the prestiege.

The Bavaria will make an excellent charter boat, just like the smaller models. It is designed by Bruce Farr, so expect it to perform at least adequately. Size of charter boats in the Med has been steadily increasing. When I bought my 37 in 2001 for charter use that was the dominant size. Now 40 is the minimum in some fleets and 45s very common.

Being "simple" boats they are robust and (relatively) easy to maintain and will give a lot less trouble than "private" style boats of similar size.

The attraction of Oysters, Swans and in smaller sizes others such as the Scandinavian boats is easy resale - as well as joining a "club" populated by the same people as you! Custom building is very risky as owners tend to go for designs that are not available in the production market, so by definition almost have little appeal. Therefore resale values can be poor. As others have noted, paying top dollar does not necessarily result in a trouble free boat. In reality the opposite may be the case. My Bavaria has been trouble free in the same way as a modern family car from a big manufacturer - for the same reasons

 

[Nautorius]

I can see the advantages.

I have spent quite a bit of time on a Beneteau 50 (Charter version) lately. It gives lots of space for not much money. 2 Families or friends can be comfortable, paying for odd marinas is Ok, safe and secure on rough passages etc. Yes it is built to a price but that is what makes it affordable, especially if you only use it Hollidays and long weekends and can charter it other times.

I recently looked at some ex-charter Bavarias and Beneteaus and was impressed with how they stood up to charter abuse as well. The beauty of the 50ft+ yachts is that they normally come with a Skipper so get better looked after.

Paul

 

[Twister_Ken]

"The beauty of the 50ft+ yachts is that they normally come with a Skipper so get better looked after."

That applies to the hostess, too.

 

[jonjo]

With Bavaria launching their version next week, I have to say, this is an area of the market I have never understood.

Nor me, at least from a private ownership perspective.

Bavaria's interior designers do not know what to do with the extra space at 50' except clone multiples of carpentry components from the smaller models e.g. if the saloon of a 36 footer has 4 flip down cave lockers below the side deck then they'll just put 6 in the 50' model.

 

[mjcp]

Bavaria's interior designers do not know what to do with the extra space at 50' except clone multiples of carpentry components from the smaller models e.g. if the saloon of a 36 footer has 4 flip down cave lockers below the side deck then they'll just put 6 in the 50' model.

I suspect you have not looked at the website internal photos for the 55' then. It looks NOTHING like the rest of the dark brown, striped floor Bavarias.

55' internal

mjcp

 

[Tranona]

I suspect you have not looked at the website internal photos for the 55' then. It looks NOTHING like the rest of the dark brown, striped floor Bavarias.

55' internal

mjcp

Although the colours are different, the principles are the same. Standardised funiture modules, standard moulding profiles. Assemble them in multiples to suit the volume of space available. If this boat takes off, expect a 45 footer and a 65 footer using less or more of the same modules.

BTW the latest Bavaria cruiser range boats have similar style, but cherry flavoured artificial veneers instead of ash! And Bavaria are not alone - all the production builders do the same - look at Hanse for the model!

 

[sighmoon]

It makes sense for a liveaboard, I'd have thought; almost as much space as a terrace in suburbia, for almost the same price. Buying a boat from a big production run often means the glitches are sorted too.

 

[boatmike]

With Bavaria launching their version next week, I have to say, this is an area of the market I have never understood. Why have something so big 'built down to a price'. Okay, so we don't all want and certainly can not all afford a Swan of that size, but why pay so much money for a boat that is much too large to use for marina hopping, much to cheap to pose in Cannes/Monaco etc and probably not really up to much else?

I have already upset several Bav owners on a different thread by saying how awful I thought the 42-45 (can't remember) was. I think however that others have the answer. It's the charter market. I can understand people buying a "budget" 36 ft or smaller boat for themselves. It's I suppose like buying a Kia car. Very good value, does what it says on the box, but is certainly no Bentley or Ferrari. But anything over that, well surely a discerning buyer would have a quality 36 ft boat than a budget boat at over 40 ft? I was so gobstruck by the awfulness of the one I saw that I didnt even look in the 55, but if the smaller one is anything to go by it must be like a Ford transit in there!

On the other thread all the Bav owners are upset, but in truth they all have smaller ones that I still don't like but understand. The bigger ones are really quite awful though and I do think in any sea at all that ballroom interior with no hand holds would become a nightmare!

 

[boatmike]

It makes sense for a liveaboard, I'd have thought; almost as much space as a terrace in suburbia, for almost the same price. Buying a boat from a big production run often means the glitches are sorted too.

Living on board one of those would be like camping out in an MFI warehouse!!

 

[boatmike]

It makes sense for a liveaboard, I'd have thought; almost as much space as a terrace in suburbia, for almost the same price. Buying a boat from a big production run often means the glitches are sorted too.

Ah yes but what sort of production run are you going to get on a 55ft boat? It will be interesting to see how many they sell....

 

[Tranona]

Not upset at all! And forget about this "smaller" bit. That is your imagination! My first Bavaria experience was in a 42 and that was the reason why I bought mine - a bit smaller as easier for the two of us to handle.

Most people who buy this size and type of boat new are experienced and almost by definition know about your "proper" boats. They make an informed choice and you rarely hear of them going back.

BTW I also own a "proper" boat - and have done for 30 years. Different style, different use

 

[asteven221]

Living on board one of those would be like camping out in an MFI warehouse!!

Not surprised to see the usual pointless and somewhat idiotic prejudice that comes up as soon as Bavaria is mentioned! Maybe one day these people will see the reality and it will dawn on them that the vast, vast majority of people like Bavs and if they could afford a nice shiny new one would buy one. No I don't own a Bav, but can't see any reason not to own one if I had a reason to change. Also from what I can see the 55 looks very nice indeed.

 

[Sailfree]

Not surprised to see the usual pointless and somewhat idiotic prejudice that comes up as soon as Bavaria is mentioned! Maybe one day these people will see the reality and it will dawn on them that the vast, vast majority of people like Bavs and if they could afford a nice shiny new one would buy one. No I don't own a Bav, but can't see any reason not to own one if I had a reason to change. Also from what I can see the 55 looks very nice indeed.

Agree

What I really have difficulty understanding is why so many get so emotive about Bavaria. Bavaria are sucessful because the boats are excellent value for money and meet the buyers need.

Unless an Oyster does something that a Bavaria cannot do then the only reason for buying one is "that you can!!"

Sensible people buy a boat that suits their requirements and many would look at the price difference and realise the money saved could be put to better use.

I have owned Ford cars in the past. By choice I prefer something a little different now but that is my choice and I would never dream of criticising a Ford as its a good car and far better quality for the money than one should reasonably expect.

I note that Boatmike admits that he is a multihull freak, I respect his choice but cannot understand his unfair criticism of a sucessful production boat manufacturer that has (by being so cheap) brought so many people into the world of yachting.

 

[mjcp]

Various people have questioned Bavaria over Oyster and suggested Hanse as the model Bavaria have copied etc

Others have then questioned why anyone would buy the Bavaria instead of the above...

Bavaria 55 2010 - E240K

Hanse 540 2007 - E325K

Oyster 53ds 2005 - E820K

BENETEAU OCEANIS 54 2008 - E360K

JEANNEAU SUN ODYSSEY 54 DS 2008 - E498K


Seems to me if you want a 55 foot plastic boat, Bavaria is cracking value: A brand new boat for E240K, look and feel of the Hanse (modern design interior/exterior) and a good length to take the wife and kids away together with another family without being cramped. (or room for family + the skipper and a crew/hostie without being cramped)

Lets face it, if your spending E250K then the cost of the extra few feet at the marina isn't goin gto phase you so is fine as a marina hopper goes. (and draws 2.35m so only a foot or so deeper than the Bav 38 which I havn't had issues parking).

mjcp

 

[Martin007]

Why would you want a Bavaria when you could have this....

see link

http://uk.yachtworld.com/boats/2000/Nautor-Swan-Swan-48-2033779/Grenada