Back to the UK for a winter refit

Portofino said:
Balanced with a can of AF £200 to 300 ish/ pa .
Also lifting the boat once -so you can see and change anodes inc the BT and prep /service drives ,which periodically will need more time out than an "in the slings " ,assuming you do the yard work yourself?
This may include other periodic jobs negating agian an "in the slings " allegded saving on blocking off for a week ?
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The other side of your argument is that Jimmy said that he was going to remove the old antifoul anyway and that is where most of the Coppercoat cost is.
The difference between applying Coppercoat and antifoul will be minimal.
Coppercoat is an epoxy and you probably won't need any extra epoxy treatments after the blasting process.
After blasting, it would be foolish not to treat the hull with epoxy prior to antifoul.

Do the costings on that basis and I'm sure that Coppercoat will be VERY cost effective.

The chances are that every annual lift in the future would be quicker as well thus saving even more in boatyard fees.

EDIT
I've been trying not to tempt fate but I will say it now
I've only booked a weekend in the boatyard this year.
Mainly because I've only got the underwater metalwork to clean/polish.
Nowadays, we polish/A Glaze only the boot line whilst in the yard and do the rest on the pontoon - easier to reach.
So, in the last few years, I have saved significant boatyard fees by having the Coppercoat vs antifoul.
If I were in Jimmy's position, it would be Coppercoat - every time.
 
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jimmy_the_builder said:
I think the argument for coppercoat is less compelling with outdrive boats, because you want to be lifting them once a year anyway, for drive servicing.
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Yup exactly. and in practice you have service items on a non-outdrive boat too meaning a hold in the slings aint enough - you need a block off.
So if all that matters is money not verdigris looks, then the trade off is that with CC you need only a jetwash each year not a coat of fresh paint, but you suffer the drag of the extra slime that CC allows to form on the hull. With M77, you need a coat of paint each year (or 2), but you have a perfectly clean hull always. It's as simple as that, in my view at least
 
This is where I'm at:
1. I'm not convinced that coppercoat is the right answer for my particular set of circumstances
2. I do want to get rid of the existing antifoul
3. ARC are no longer trading so they are not an option
4. Symblast can do it but I have concerns about how aggressive their treatment is (and secondarily, I'm also concerned at how long it will take to apply 6no coats of epoxy after blasting)
5. first prize for me continues to be (a) scrape the existing antifoul off by hand (b) light sanding of hull (c) prime (d) M77

My current issue is that I don't currently have anyone lined up for the scraping work, and unhelpfully I am in the US from tomorrow.
 
#5 makes sense to me. That's what I'd do. And use a high quality primer. Ref US, there's no rush is there? Deal with it when you come back
 
jfm said:
#5 makes sense to me. That's what I'd do. And use a high quality primer. Ref US, there's no rush is there? Deal with it when you come back
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Everything slips, is the only slight issue. Engines are going back in two weeks today. Valeter is booked for two weeks on Monday. Relaunch booked for three weeks on Monday. I can obviously reschedule the valeter (who is also applying the antifoul) and the relaunch if necessary, but I am getting itchy to get the boat back into commission so that I can complete the rest of the refit.
 
jimmy_the_builder said:
This is where I'm at:
1. I'm not convinced that coppercoat is the right answer for my particular set of circumstances
2. I do want to get rid of the existing antifoul
3. ARC are no longer trading so they are not an option
4. Symblast can do it but I have concerns about how aggressive their treatment is (and secondarily, I'm also concerned at how long it will take to apply 6no coats of epoxy after blasting)
5. first prize for me continues to be (a) scrape the existing antifoul off by hand (b) light sanding of hull (c) prime (d) M77

My current issue is that I don't currently have anyone lined up for the scraping work, and unhelpfully I am in the US from tomorrow.
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Scraping... ahhhhh.. I scraped my Mitchell 31 by hand before doing epoxy & CC. It took me 2 weeks by hand and was a dire job. It also resulted in the odd deep scratch into the Gelcoat that had to be repaired. In short it's a sh*t job that I'd never do again.

I can only suggest that you look into blasting in more detail - obviously not sand blasting or an aggressive blast like that, but I do believe that there are much more gentle methods available.

As for applying the epoxy - it's a pretty straight forward job and made easier with 3 bodies working around the boat.
 
jimmy_the_builder said:
This is where I'm at:
1. I'm not convinced that coppercoat is the right answer for my particular set of circumstances
2. I do want to get rid of the existing antifoul
3. ARC are no longer trading so they are not an option
4. Symblast can do it but I have concerns about how aggressive their treatment is (and secondarily, I'm also concerned at how long it will take to apply 6no coats of epoxy after blasting)
5. first prize for me continues to be (a) scrape the existing antifoul off by hand (b) light sanding of hull (c) prime (d) M77

My current issue is that I don't currently have anyone lined up for the scraping work, and unhelpfully I am in the US from tomorrow.
Click to expand...

I agree - if the option is sandblasting, I wouldn't do it.
And if you aren't going to remove the old antifoul anyway, then you can't coppercoat anyway.
Then option 5 would seem the best.
My point was that if you were going to remove the old, you might as well recoat with Coppercoat.
But removing the old does need to be done carefully - IMHO, not sandblasted.
 
jfm said:
Yup I've heard that advice 100x Pete but I don't follow it and find it completely wrong in the 25knot zone, and know others who have no problem in 35 knots. Of course, it is a function not of speed but of speed x hours. If I did 2000 not 200 hours @ 23 knots I might have a problem, but then I'd just apply more layers of paint, not use hard a/f.
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Agree. I heard the same every year when I boated in the UK but I still specified a self eroding Micron antifoul paint and told the yard to put 2 good layers on. It always worked better in UK conditions than a hard antifoul and I always had planing boats which I cruised in the 20-25kt range
 
jimmy_the_builder said:
This is where I'm at:
1. I'm not convinced that coppercoat is the right answer for my particular set of circumstances
2. I do want to get rid of the existing antifoul
3. ARC are no longer trading so they are not an option
4. Symblast can do it but I have concerns about how aggressive their treatment is (and secondarily, I'm also concerned at how long it will take to apply 6no coats of epoxy after blasting)
5. first prize for me continues to be (a) scrape the existing antifoul off by hand (b) light sanding of hull (c) prime (d) M77

My current issue is that I don't currently have anyone lined up for the scraping work, and unhelpfully I am in the US from tomorrow.
Click to expand...

Out of interest, did you look at the option of using antifoul remover? I've never used it, and don't even know if it works on hard a/f, but if you apply it in the same way as Nitromors then just scrape off the gooey paint, that sounds preferable to manual scraping to me. Maybe you could even apply with a brush and jet wash it off?

On balance I agree with your view on Coppercoat for your circumstances, because you have to lift every year anyway, and you don't get cheap lift and scrub deals in SoF which means the slime penalty is greater. I'd still have it on a shaft boat in SoF if I was starting with a bare or stripped hull, because I'm tight and I can scrub the hull of my P57 with scuba gear and a nylon scourer in about an hour and save 2,000 euro every time.
 
Nick_H said:
Out of interest, did you look at the option of using antifoul remover? I've never used it, and don't even know if it works on hard a/f, but if you apply it in the same way as Nitromors then just scrape off the gooey paint, that sounds preferable to manual scraping to me. Maybe you could even apply with a brush and jet wash it off?

On balance I agree with your view on Coppercoat for your circumstances, because you have to lift every year anyway, and you don't get cheap lift and scrub deals in SoF which means the slime penalty is greater. I'd still have it on a shaft boat in SoF if I was starting with a bare or stripped hull, because I'm tight and I can scrub the hull of my P57 with scuba gear and a nylon scourer in about an hour and save 2,000 euro every time.
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Hang on. You're dressing up in rubber and you're making 2000 euro an hour? Are you sure you're just "scrubbing the hull" ? :D:D
 
Nick_H said:
Out of interest, did you look at the option of using antifoul remover? I've never used it, and don't even know if it works on hard a/f, but if you apply it in the same way as Nitromors then just scrape off the gooey paint, that sounds preferable to manual scraping to me. Maybe you could even apply with a brush and jet wash it off?

On balance I agree with your view on Coppercoat for your circumstances, because you have to lift every year anyway, and you don't get cheap lift and scrub deals in SoF which means the slime penalty is greater. I'd still have it on a shaft boat in SoF if I was starting with a bare or stripped hull, because I'm tight and I can scrub the hull of my P57 with scuba gear and a nylon scourer in about an hour and save 2,000 euro every time.
Click to expand...

Can you also change anodes ,inc the BT ,polish the hull check / change flap hydraulics ? / check /paint / service anchor - check replce -service sea cocks as well - In a wetsuit while the boats still in the water ?

I do not see an annual haul out saving -
 
rafiki_ said:
Tiger Extra is going on Rafiki. According to the guff, this is good for 25 kn. We cruise at 16-22, so ok for me.
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But you have it wrong way round IMHO Rafiki. You want to EXCEED the speed rating of your paint to play safe and be sure you're not left with a layer of dead paint, not fall short of it.
 
Portofino said:
Can you also change anodes ,inc the BT ,polish the hull check / change flap hydraulics ? / check /paint / service anchor - check replce -service sea cocks as well - In a wetsuit while the boats still in the water ?

I do not see an annual haul out saving -
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Yup, that's how I see it. Though I don't want to interfere with nick's 2000 hour dressed in rubber sideline.:D
 
Illusion said:
James

Have you spoken with these guys yet?

http://symblast.com

Maybe worth looking into the methods and options available. These guys did our P40 through GBR.
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Interesting website, no longer called Symblast due to their accountant woman screwing things up.......... Also the area they cover seems to include a new large island off the southern Welsh coast!
 
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