U4
Well-Known Member
Surprisingly calm indeed. I can't really imagine how woefully rubbish an experience he has had, really feel for him and I for one am glad that his video is reaching the masses.
Azimut video
- Thread starter longjohnsilver
- Start date
Surprisingly calm indeed. I can't really imagine how woefully rubbish an experience he has had, really feel for him and I for one am glad that his video is reaching the masses.
EugeneR
Well-Known Member
The fixed some of the issues, yes, but that did not leave the boat in the "as new" one would expect after paying the "new boat" premium.
3 months out of season 1 translates to about 6-8% of the boat's value... maybe $60k+ in this case?
I believe that a good dealer / manufacturer would offer to make good these issues and I am sure that, had they done so reasonably, he would not have made or published the video. It could have been a win-win-win outcome, rather than this.
rbcoomer
Well-Known Member
Yes, I do agree and it doesn't say much for quality control! I can understand some of the issues and they probably don't expect some of the defects with 3rd party materials like flooring, fridge etc. More fundamental construction issues are in their remit however and they really need to have better checks and control over these. It must cost 10 times more to remedy a hull problem after all the fitting out is done then getting it right at construction stage. If it was a first build (I don't believe it was) then what happened to testing processes and building prototypes/scale models? I'm sure they're not the only builder to have such issues, but the who ethos is poor IMHO and this is what would put me off - not that I have anything like those sums to invest anyway
I'm afraid I've always been of the view that the product must always exceed customer expectation and would be mortified if I'd sold this guy the boat - let alone made it!
P4Paul
Well-Known Member
Having manufactured for the marine industry which is a low volume market, I can honestly say that guaranteeing 100% end user satisfaction and ensuring products exceed customer expectation at the design stage would drive the nett build cost of the boat to exceed the value placed upon it by the customer and you would be unlikely to sell enough boats to survive.
Boat builders know that bringing together such a huge amount of technology and assembling it into a high end boat will always bring issues, system clashes and challenges. That is why factory checks, commissioning and sea trials should be designed to highlight the weaknesses and facilitate elimination before handover.
The issue for manufacturers is that they rarely carry out the commissioning and sea trial and hardly ever are involved in the rectification of warranty work, this puts them and their reputation at the mercy of their dealer and distribution network.
What isn't acceptable is poor customer relationship management on the part of the dealer; describing a brand you sell as 'luxury' sets customer expectation so when the inevitable 'in service' issues arise, it's how you address them in a timely and professional way that helps comfort the buyer that you were the right choice to help safeguard their investment.
What dealers tend to forget is addressing the issues quickly and efficiently and feeding all the details back to the factory not only ensures customer expectation is managed but also ensures learning from those issues and leads to irradiation of them from future builds. Simply a case of review, learn and improve.
This in turn builds the brand reputation and enables increased retained margins which then funds enhanced customer service and relationship management and so the loop starts over again.
I guess what I am trying to say is that it is easy to kick out at the builder because there are faults on the boat but the dealer is the difference between it being a hiccup or a trauma for the owner and a risk or an opportunity for the brand.
Boat builders know that bringing together such a huge amount of technology and assembling it into a high end boat will always bring issues, system clashes and challenges. That is why factory checks, commissioning and sea trials should be designed to highlight the weaknesses and facilitate elimination before handover.
The issue for manufacturers is that they rarely carry out the commissioning and sea trial and hardly ever are involved in the rectification of warranty work, this puts them and their reputation at the mercy of their dealer and distribution network.
What isn't acceptable is poor customer relationship management on the part of the dealer; describing a brand you sell as 'luxury' sets customer expectation so when the inevitable 'in service' issues arise, it's how you address them in a timely and professional way that helps comfort the buyer that you were the right choice to help safeguard their investment.
What dealers tend to forget is addressing the issues quickly and efficiently and feeding all the details back to the factory not only ensures customer expectation is managed but also ensures learning from those issues and leads to irradiation of them from future builds. Simply a case of review, learn and improve.
This in turn builds the brand reputation and enables increased retained margins which then funds enhanced customer service and relationship management and so the loop starts over again.
I guess what I am trying to say is that it is easy to kick out at the builder because there are faults on the boat but the dealer is the difference between it being a hiccup or a trauma for the owner and a risk or an opportunity for the brand.
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Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
Me too i can't find it either!
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Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
I saw it too. Magnum was an extremely fastidious customer and rightly so but I felt that perhaps a few of his problems would not even have been noticed by certain Princess customers and without having seen this vid, I'm guessing were not anywhere near as serious anyway
EugeneR
Well-Known Member
Do we know why the original thread was removed?
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Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
Having seen the movie now, it's brilliant example of British sang froid and excellent because of that. That should be required viewing for every boatbuilder and boat dealer because a lot of them aren't any better
Anders_P42
Well-Known Member
What a horror story, chap bought what was probably his dream boat to be confronted with 24 months of ongoing issues. I can't imagine there have be many produced to this standard, or there would be more frequent bad press on forums etc?
lanerboy
Well-Known Member
I have always been led to believe that Azimut is not a good builder anyway no where near on the same level as the big 3 british builders, on pictures I have looked at of Azimut boats they always seem to be a bit plastic looking for me all imho of course
CMJ
Well-Known Member
We've had a 2006 Azimut 50 in the UK since early 2007 and it's been (and still is) a great boat. I've always been very impressed with the build quality 'under the covers' and apart from the odd detail as mentioned here before like exposed screws in the door jambs, I'd give it 10/10. I do however remember seeing new generation Azimut's (like the 47) and the interiors looked like there'd been a little cost cutting going on (mainly due to expanses of exposed GRP rather than soft furnishings etc). It's a shame to hear of this guy's misfortunes and he's had the opposite experience to us...
Oh, please PM me a link anyone as haven't been able to find vid also - cheers.
Oh, please PM me a link anyone as haven't been able to find vid also - cheers.
blueglass
Well-Known Member
OP rightly nervous about publishing a private video and its password in a public forum.
rafiki_
Well-Known Member
Mine is a 2002 build Shawn, and for me stands very good comparison with any boat of a similar size. Being an engineer, I tend to look beneath the surface, and I am very happy with what I see. I cannot comment on current Azi's as I have no experience of them. Bad dealer support is not uncommon. In the UK, EBY have a great reputation, but again I have no personal experience. I have communicated with the new UK Azi dealer, and I like what I see so far.
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Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
I'll second that. I had a AZ46 a few years ago, built in yr 2000 and I felt it was a better built boat at the time than the British built boats I had owned previously with the exception of Broom. Certainly the quality of components used was significantly higher. Having said that, my AZ46 suffered minor osmotic blistering around the transom area but it was fixed by the UK dealer at the time at no cost to me despite the boat being outside its hull warranty which I thought was very good service. However, in the case of the AZ47 featured in the vid, the faults that the owner experienced were completely unacceptable and the actions of the dealer or rather, inactions, lamentable. I can only hope that this was a Friday afternoon boat with a Friday afternoon dealer looking after it
One excellent point that the guy in the vid makes is to employ and experienced surveyor and skipper to inspect and test the boat before a buyer takes delivery. IMHO thats good advice and I'm not sure why new boat buyers don't appear to do this
sap_2000
Well-Known Member
MapisM
Well-Known Member
Wow. So you decided, based on some pictures, that they are "not a good builder" and nowhere near the 3 British.
May I ask if you have an idea of the AVERAGE size of boats they build?
Hint: the difference between the bigger boat built by one of the 3 British and their AVERAGE boat size is almost enough to fit the video boat in between.
They must be doing something right, I reckon.
As an aside, I found the post #33 from rafiki (a true connoisseur of the car industry) enlightening.
We keep comparing boatbuilding with the car industry in these forums, and in several occasions I thought that most comments were made from people who never saw a shipyard, or a car maker plant, or (more likely) neither.
Now, Azimut is imho the ONLY boatbuilder on this planet who does apply industrial principles (at least to some extent) in what essentially still is a cottage industry.
Of course, none of the above is an excuse for lifting the wrong engine to replace a pan - that's rather in the "would be funny if it weren't sad" category....
And I have other funny feelings also about other points raised in that video, but I'm neither interested nor willing to comment it further.
wakeup
Well-Known Member
Mapis, I don't think the size of boats they build is really relevant. No one doubts that Azimut have built a lot of good boats, but they have clearly dropped the ball on this one. There is no excuse for scupper drains and AC condensate drains running up hill. The double whammy for this chap has been the amateur reseller support. Btw I think the customer has been irritatingly reasonable given the number of issues and after sales support.
[2068]
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The way I saw it, there were a few minor things that reflect on Azimut as a brand (drains running up hill?, gelcoat over release wax, porous flybridge) which were exacerbated by slow service from the dealer, comical "wrong engine" repairs, and some kit such as the joystick that was cursed.
But, from the owners point of view, it all relates to the brand and the dealer. Outside of warranty, said owner is going to end up talking to each suppliers service department for the many bits onboard!
But, from the owners point of view, it all relates to the brand and the dealer. Outside of warranty, said owner is going to end up talking to each suppliers service department for the many bits onboard!
Hugin
Well-Known Member
Bavaria Yachts use assembly lines although as far as I know they are not model specific.... one line for sailboats, one for mobos. They also use industrial robots to cut out for portholes and the likes.
I don't know if Beneteau+Jeanneau use assembly lines but they certainly have a fairly industrialized cutting department for cabinets and carpentry in general.
Yes, boat building often resembles a cottage industry...... maybe that's the problem (the reason profitability in boat building is so shitty). The people in charge should maybe consider strategies to move beyond those pre-industrial methods.
MapisM
Well-Known Member
Well, of course it is, considering the content of the post I was replying to.
Re. the "reasonable" customer, you must put that in perspective.
He hired some pros to put together a well directed and cut video, de-facto aimed at a smear campaign (no matter what the declared intent is, and regardless of how accurate the fact reported are). Appearing reasonable was obviously part of the show, as well as the makeup they made him for the camera.
Mind, I'm neither saying that he doesn't have reasons to complain, nor that the boat wasn't bad. It's not my habit to judge a book by its cover.
I just smell a rat, that's all I'm saying.
Also because, fwiw, I know for sure that this boat - even assuming that the video is 100% genuine - is NOT representative of Azi production standards. Neither current, nor past.
Oh, and needless to say, I'm not saying this just based on some pics I've seen...
