Nigelpickin
Well-Known Member
That's a strange one for sure....
You should pop over to les herbiers for a look/see....
Azimut video
- Thread starter longjohnsilver
- Start date
You should pop over to les herbiers for a look/see....
wakeup
Well-Known Member
Hmm. You are clearly very open minded on this one Mapis 
We will disagree then that boat size has nothing to do with quality of build. Just because Azimut build big boats doesn't let them off the hook one iota on the issues raised, fe poor gel coat, drains running the wrong inclination and screws through the flybridge floor. Those items should have been picked up at the factory as part of their QA process, no excuses for those at all. Building bigger boats should mean more hands and eyes on the product before it leaves the factory so your size argument should be inversely proportional to the quality of the product imho.
Agreed that OEM components going dead is largely not Azimut's fault providing the items are appropriate spec and they are promptly replaced under warranty. The throttles were by far the most concerning item in this regard.
The dealer service was clearly laughable, but here again Azimut have some responsibility, they appoint them and should ensure that they have enough tech resources to perform proper aftersales services. If the dealer isn't up to it, Azimut should do something about it, it is after all their network.
With regard to the customer's motives for producing what you say is a professional video, which btw I could do with an ordinary camera and iMovie at home, the whole thing is fabulously understated in a quintessentialy British way. I don't doubt that the guy is a smouldering volcanoe inside, he has lost three months of boating time, no doubt many many hours of his personal time chasing down these issues and no doubt has better and more profitable things to do with his time. So where would the rat be that you smell? I agree that the video casts uncertainty and doubt over the QA processes at Azimut and so it should, I think the evidence is clear to see in the photos. Perhaps you should see this for what it is, a measured complaint that he has had to make public I am guessing because he isn't seeing appropriate redress.
We will disagree then that boat size has nothing to do with quality of build. Just because Azimut build big boats doesn't let them off the hook one iota on the issues raised, fe poor gel coat, drains running the wrong inclination and screws through the flybridge floor. Those items should have been picked up at the factory as part of their QA process, no excuses for those at all. Building bigger boats should mean more hands and eyes on the product before it leaves the factory so your size argument should be inversely proportional to the quality of the product imho.
Agreed that OEM components going dead is largely not Azimut's fault providing the items are appropriate spec and they are promptly replaced under warranty. The throttles were by far the most concerning item in this regard.
The dealer service was clearly laughable, but here again Azimut have some responsibility, they appoint them and should ensure that they have enough tech resources to perform proper aftersales services. If the dealer isn't up to it, Azimut should do something about it, it is after all their network.
With regard to the customer's motives for producing what you say is a professional video, which btw I could do with an ordinary camera and iMovie at home, the whole thing is fabulously understated in a quintessentialy British way. I don't doubt that the guy is a smouldering volcanoe inside, he has lost three months of boating time, no doubt many many hours of his personal time chasing down these issues and no doubt has better and more profitable things to do with his time. So where would the rat be that you smell? I agree that the video casts uncertainty and doubt over the QA processes at Azimut and so it should, I think the evidence is clear to see in the photos. Perhaps you should see this for what it is, a measured complaint that he has had to make public I am guessing because he isn't seeing appropriate redress.
Last edited:
sarabande
Well-Known Member
MapisM
He hired some pros to put together a well directed and cut video, de-facto aimed at a smear campaign (no matter what the declared intent is, and regardless of how accurate the fact reported are).
The guy has enough spare money to buy an expensive boat. I expect that his video skills are subordinate to his banking/real estate/consultancy/whatever ones, and he is accustomed to doing presentations properly - vide the script he was holding. He is not a professional line-learning actor so doesn't want to look like a youtube turnip. Some of the video (e.g. the uphill drains) is not professionally lit at all. A competent video person did the takes and editing, but not a commercial pro.
Appearing reasonable was obviously part of the show, as well as the makeup they made him for the camera.
Reasonable - what's wrong with that ? He gains credibility from his rational and measured explanations and pointing to the faults so that we can see them. What do you want? A slavvering rant ? Oh, makeup. Do you have an issue with that, if indeed it is true ? Maybe it is part of his normal persona; who cares ?
Mind, I'm neither saying that he doesn't have reasons to complain, nor that the boat wasn't bad. It's not my habit to judge a book by its cover.
Damning by faint praise, and by failing to accept that the video shows evidence, EVIDENCE. What are you saying ? That is was all made up ?
I just smell a rat, that's all I'm saying.
Anyone who has seen the video will also have smelled a rat. Several rats: design rats, installation rats, maintenance rats, bodge rats, service rats. That's all I am saying, too.
Also because, fwiw, I know for sure that this boat - even assuming that the video is 100% genuine - is NOT representative of Azi production standards. Neither current, nor past.
Come on, fess up. If you know the video is NOT 100% genuine, which bits are not ? I mean, you know for sure, don't you ?
Oh, and needless to say, I'm not saying this just based on some pics I've seen...
The precise little verbal stiletto. You deal with big boats all the time; you probably have contacts with Azimut. If you have evidence that all is not kosher about the video, the owner, or the boat, then why not come clean and tell ? Otherwise you are captive to the same commercial pressures, and incompetent/unethical processes which taint the whole story. You are using the old and discredited sales technique of FUD: fear, uncertainty and doubt. That erosion of trust bounces back on you, I regret to say.
adey
Well-Known Member
My Azi's old (1990) but I think it was way ahead of the British stuff at the time. eg. Stainless, electric toilets and stainless sinks with chunky shower heads when Princess were still using plastic sinks (in horrible pastel colours) with plastic shower heads, not to mention their MFI type galleys.
That video is quite alarming in some parts and I feel for the guy.
That said, now that it's sorted it's a stunning looking boat.
EugeneR
Well-Known Member
It sounded like most issues were fixed under warranty. Statistically, there will be mistakes e.g. wrong engine, but it is how the dealer deal with those cases, that matter to me. I prefer a dealer with sometimes too few resources, than one with always too many.
Same with manufacturing issues. They should not have happened but, for some reason, they did. Friday job or whatever. Several on the same boat, though. The question is, does that mean they are likely to happen to other boats as well? Yes, statistically. In which case, I agree with the owner that these are things to check before you take ownership, and write into the contract in case it comes up later e.g. any downtime beyond first 2 weeks caused by warranty issues to be compensated by a reasonable amount/day.
Some things e.g. parts availability / delay seems to be a sistemic issue and needs a better solution, for the manufacturer / dealer to resolve. And to let people know how it will work better. Or else, I will add another clause to the contract. Easier done when they are still hungry for a sale and do not themselves believe any of these things will happen (or do they?).
Same with manufacturing issues. They should not have happened but, for some reason, they did. Friday job or whatever. Several on the same boat, though. The question is, does that mean they are likely to happen to other boats as well? Yes, statistically. In which case, I agree with the owner that these are things to check before you take ownership, and write into the contract in case it comes up later e.g. any downtime beyond first 2 weeks caused by warranty issues to be compensated by a reasonable amount/day.
Some things e.g. parts availability / delay seems to be a sistemic issue and needs a better solution, for the manufacturer / dealer to resolve. And to let people know how it will work better. Or else, I will add another clause to the contract. Easier done when they are still hungry for a sale and do not themselves believe any of these things will happen (or do they?).
FirstMate II
Well-Known Member
Did anyone else notice the automatic doors on the boat opposite at 20.33 in the video . Impressive 
PowerYachtBlog
Well-Known Member
I remain to my opinion that the stuff I saw in this boat I see on some new boats once in a year. May be not all together, but some of these I have seen in some different boats.
I used to take care of a new boat coming from one of the three UK builders, a few years ago and while the problems lists was not as big as this, we had the following which where never taken care by the dealer and or Fairline, out of mind I remember some of these;
- lot of chipping to the bottom gel-coat (with about half a dozen being about 4 inches squared) this was the first lift out (this guy was complaining because his Azimut had no primer, this one had not even antifouling in some parts)
- extra three air-condition units two of which never worked even 2 years after warranty
- all the sealer in the boat radar arch to flybridge, was a disaster
- water in bathing platform never coming out (the extract was above the tray) so if you want to fix we had to fix a new hole under water
- some hairline cracks (from the factory) in the non-slip gel-coat
- all stainless steel bolts corroded badly (the factory said they where 316) we send them back with a receipt for new ones (we never got them back)
- the toilet pump out pipe was twisted and blocked (we changed this in delivery)
- all wiring was let loose
- forward cabin hanging locker drooped in Force 4/5 seas in 2 meters wave in the third trip
- water infiltration to four of the seven windows and in bottom of the forward windshield
- three years into the boat we also had a circle GRP just short of 1 foot part delaminating in the radar arch (and some color deformations)
Yes I should have made a video about this, but I am more someone who goes on resolving things on boats, then doing a lot of talk or videos on the internet or on the pontoon.
Some of that video, are very standard new boat problems (unfortunately) other are not so much.
We also have to remember that the boat is four years old (2010), she use to travel from NY to Florida (that is not an easy trip AFAIK), and sometimes if you thrust your hands to captains I know what some of these can do
if they are in a hurry.
Just to return to Azimut, I remember a few years ago boarding a 68 at the boat show (built below standard) a client of myn still decided to go for purchase after sea trials with another boat. His boat was very different made to the one at the boat show and was a lot better.
Also Azimut has a habit of going to some of the important boat shows (Cannes - Genoa in the past) with totally new boats, that can prove to have somethings still needing ironing out. The 42 and 58 they had in this show was close to perfection for example.
This guy has a right to complain and make a video, but as I said if you want to see this as problems existing only on maker X you are seeing them with the wrong pair of eyes. (one of the worst problems in that boat actually came from the mistake the engineer did on the engine).
I used to take care of a new boat coming from one of the three UK builders, a few years ago and while the problems lists was not as big as this, we had the following which where never taken care by the dealer and or Fairline, out of mind I remember some of these;
- lot of chipping to the bottom gel-coat (with about half a dozen being about 4 inches squared) this was the first lift out (this guy was complaining because his Azimut had no primer, this one had not even antifouling in some parts)
- extra three air-condition units two of which never worked even 2 years after warranty
- all the sealer in the boat radar arch to flybridge, was a disaster
- water in bathing platform never coming out (the extract was above the tray) so if you want to fix we had to fix a new hole under water
- some hairline cracks (from the factory) in the non-slip gel-coat
- all stainless steel bolts corroded badly (the factory said they where 316) we send them back with a receipt for new ones (we never got them back)
- the toilet pump out pipe was twisted and blocked (we changed this in delivery)
- all wiring was let loose
- forward cabin hanging locker drooped in Force 4/5 seas in 2 meters wave in the third trip
- water infiltration to four of the seven windows and in bottom of the forward windshield
- three years into the boat we also had a circle GRP just short of 1 foot part delaminating in the radar arch (and some color deformations)
Yes I should have made a video about this, but I am more someone who goes on resolving things on boats, then doing a lot of talk or videos on the internet or on the pontoon.
Some of that video, are very standard new boat problems (unfortunately) other are not so much.
We also have to remember that the boat is four years old (2010), she use to travel from NY to Florida (that is not an easy trip AFAIK), and sometimes if you thrust your hands to captains I know what some of these can do
if they are in a hurry.
Just to return to Azimut, I remember a few years ago boarding a 68 at the boat show (built below standard) a client of myn still decided to go for purchase after sea trials with another boat. His boat was very different made to the one at the boat show and was a lot better.
Also Azimut has a habit of going to some of the important boat shows (Cannes - Genoa in the past) with totally new boats, that can prove to have somethings still needing ironing out. The 42 and 58 they had in this show was close to perfection for example.
This guy has a right to complain and make a video, but as I said if you want to see this as problems existing only on maker X you are seeing them with the wrong pair of eyes. (one of the worst problems in that boat actually came from the mistake the engineer did on the engine).
Last edited:
MapisM
Well-Known Member
No disagreement on that wakeup, 'cause that has never been my point.
I was only commenting another post rather than the video itself, and as I previously told you, it's only in that context that you should read my post.
In fact, I did say also that I was neither interested nor willing to further comment the video, and it's only incidental that I actually did afterwards (heaven forbid!), while replying to yours.
Otoh, congrats to yourself and sarabande if you guys are as good as that producer at making videos, because it didn't take me much more than a quick web search to find out that they are indeed real pros - probably to the point of purposedly letting some "poor" bits here and there.
Oh, apropos of sarabande:
many thanks for your consideration and your wordsmithed reply, my dear friend. I love you too!
In hindsight, I must apologize for not having dedicated the same attention to your post #4, where you suggested that nobody should buy an Az anymore because of this video.
I hope you'll forgive me for that, but - unbelievable as it might seem - there was an even more ridiculous post that grabbed my attention.
And please forgive me also for not following up on your rather rude questions, but I have two good reasons for not bothering:
1) I couldn't care less if "the erosion of trust bounces back on myself" as you are pretending (or what you might think my involvement with Az is, etc.), and - most important
2) I'd rather check the weather forecasts and the route for the bit of cruising which I'm going to make in the next few days, thanks God.
Last edited:
pan
Well-Known Member
Unfortunately I don't think these problems are restricted to Azi's, I know of a new Princess 72 delivered this year, the owner a friend of mine, had a list of 98 faults from delivery and not all had been resolved 2 months later, his words were 'it's becoming an 'unfit for purpose' situation!'. Maybe better buying a well looked after & sorted 1-2 year boat…
sarabande
Well-Known Member
MapisM
"where you suggested that nobody should buy an Az anymore because of this video."
That's nonsense, You have read into my comments a view which they do not contain.
You are a highly experienced and respected big boat man, and I think you are trying to defend the indefensible as a matter of professional pride, which is a shame.
I hope you enjoy your holiday cruising. Sincerely.
"where you suggested that nobody should buy an Az anymore because of this video."
That's nonsense, You have read into my comments a view which they do not contain.
You are a highly experienced and respected big boat man, and I think you are trying to defend the indefensible as a matter of professional pride, which is a shame.
I hope you enjoy your holiday cruising. Sincerely.
MapisM
Well-Known Member
You are correct, my previous sentence was a personal interpretation.
What you actually said is "Any potential purchaser of that brand might have had reason to take a deep breath and have second thoughts".
I'll tell you what, lets others decide how bad my interpretation was.
Thanks for your wishes anyway, I appreciate!
What you actually said is "Any potential purchaser of that brand might have had reason to take a deep breath and have second thoughts".
I'll tell you what, lets others decide how bad my interpretation was.
Thanks for your wishes anyway, I appreciate!
wakeup
Well-Known Member
Oh come on Mapis, before you take your football home , are you really suggesting the guy hired a pro video team to make it look like a home movie? My guess is he took a bunch of footage with handheld camera and then asked a mate in the industry to stitch it all together. He probably then sent it over to Azimut and the dealer privately and it is now semi public I guess because the Azimut and dealer have not responded as hoped.
, are you really suggesting the guy hired a pro video team to make it look like a home movie? My guess is he took a bunch of footage with handheld camera and then asked a mate in the industry to stitch it all together. He probably then sent it over to Azimut and the dealer privately and it is now semi public I guess because the Azimut and dealer have not responded as hoped.
RogerRat
Well-Known Member
Ha, guess I won't be hearing from you again Shawn?
I've owned a few different boats that include two Fairlines and now an Azi' 46. I have found that Azi have have done some really good things all behind the scenes. Some very good ideas, better finish inside cupboards and upholstery than I actually expected. OEM parts like patio doors of extremely high quality and def. not cost cutting fit-outs. Cabinet work and upholstery finish outstanding.
The styling, I personally like muchly. It hasn't dated like some. I also think that the historic sales volume must say something for the success of the brand. The latest offerings from some of the Brit 3 I do not like so much, especially some of the slab sided models.
In the case of the video in this thread, I believe he has waited this long just to show how peeved he was with the length of time it has taken to correct his list of faults that became longer through dealer support cock-ups. All the while the dealer and Azimut were on the case to correct these faults, he kept quiet, now the boat is up together, he has now decided to go public; and so calmly and matter of fact.
Very strange... :ambivalence:
RR
jrudge
Well-Known Member
Just looked at this (was away on mobile data). The boat clearly has had a host of issues. Some I would suspect were due to it being driven hard from NY to Florida. Not that this is an excuse, but it has probably aggravated the position.
No individual issue was that bad, but the big thing to me was the trend of incompetence by the builder. Uphill drains, screws through the fly bridge, gelcoat coming off as not correctly prepped, gelcoat cracking and so on. The dealer ( who I assume repaired this lot) actually seemed to do ok.
I am not really sure of his aim in publishing the video. From what he said every issue was actually resolved under warranty. I can appreciate he probably wanted some compensation from Azimut for loss of use, but I would think all he has actually done is made his own boat a pretty difficult sale on the second hand market.
Pretty sad that YBW felt the need to pull it. The video was pretty factual with pictures showing the faults etc.
No individual issue was that bad, but the big thing to me was the trend of incompetence by the builder. Uphill drains, screws through the fly bridge, gelcoat coming off as not correctly prepped, gelcoat cracking and so on. The dealer ( who I assume repaired this lot) actually seemed to do ok.
I am not really sure of his aim in publishing the video. From what he said every issue was actually resolved under warranty. I can appreciate he probably wanted some compensation from Azimut for loss of use, but I would think all he has actually done is made his own boat a pretty difficult sale on the second hand market.
Pretty sad that YBW felt the need to pull it. The video was pretty factual with pictures showing the faults etc.
Nigelpickin
Well-Known Member
Thats a really good point that you make there....if I were the owner I would be concerned regarding selling on. I'm not sure what this kind of exercise achieves other than to sate the appetite for revenge, which in all honesty is probably best served as a large cold helping of 'I won't ever buy another Azimut'.
He would have been far better off opening a polite public dialogue with the dealer/builder during the fact....imho.
rbcoomer
Well-Known Member
I suspect the resale factor is the reason many more don't publicise their ownership 'issues'. That's perhaps a shame in some ways because I'm sure many more builders take their eye off the ball from time to time and some knowledge of these issues would help prospective buyers. If I were in the market for an Azimut, then I certainly wouldn't be put off by this, I'd just want some confirmation that they have taken action and won't make the same mistakes. I don't believe any of them are perfect and I think it's more about how problems are dealt with that matters. I don't think any of these issues other than drains would have been visible at delivery, so it's likely further back in the process that the quality control went wrong. This boat will however have incurred someone considerable costs and that in itself should mean that they don't want a repeat either and I'm sure they'll have had words in someone's ear!
Nigelpickin
Well-Known Member
Agreed and don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that I wouldn't buy an azimut, I'd buy any old ****