vas
Well-Known Member
since I raised the temp issue, and regardless what Porto says, IF you go the LifePO4 route, DON'T put them down there in the engine room with such temps.
Azimut 46 - new battery charger system plus service/house batteries, engines battery and gen. battery
- Thread starter Skipper Felice
- Start date
Portofino
Well-Known Member
While phaffing servicing the the 13 L engine ( same 4.20 M ish beam of the OP I accidentally triggered the port air intake flap shut spring loaded fire mitigation mechanism , guess what . 50 hrs later and no discernible -ve performance of engines sucking on one side or battery performance. The hot water heater was on the port side . It packed up 220 v unit so while re placing it I noticed the error and manually re cocked ( spring loaded to shut ) by hands. In other words for the less tech minded my boat ran unnoticed on only one side ( stb ) vent open .
Made zero discernible difference,
The “ ER” air supply has negligible if any effect on the OP s battery issues :
Azimut make know what they are doing
This conversation is a cul d sac
Made zero discernible difference,
The “ ER” air supply has negligible if any effect on the OP s battery issues :
Azimut make know what they are doing
This conversation is a cul d sac
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Portofino
Well-Known Member
That’s a given .
Lithium are uber heat sensitive.
One other reason apart from fire to avoid .
What’s wrong with OEM plus as I said trying to asking professional to check if you have a balanced of the golden 3
1 use age -drain : consumption
2- capacity
3 - charging
It ain’t the science of the rocket here .
If you find one of those out of kilter and jump to lithium bcz you can .,, do be it you will always be out of balance
Portofino
Well-Known Member
Ever noticed any adverse battery life span issues?
Note you are uk but the ER temps for a bit after shutting down .::::
And what type of batts are you running and how long do they last?
For balance I got approx 4 yrs with 180 ah a in the med “ sauna “ ER temps ,
Just as said had a guys change over while I sipped Rose . Chicken feed in the gen scheme of running the boat .
No lifting , no humping , no disposal .
Same marina as the op
PaulRainbow
Well-Known Member
Usual nonsense.
Portofino
Well-Known Member
The not mentioned advantage of a high ER
Can you elaborate on lithium s fire risk in the med engine rooms ambient north of70 *C if only to reasure us ?
Any rational debate…. Are you capable ?
No worries Paul if you aren’t ,
As I mentioned further up a big ship vehicle transportation Co has now declined carting lithium batteries cars around the globe . What does that msg say ? And they are parked up in the hold .Stone cold .
Is there a difference on the margins when you fit Lithium s ? Churn a lead acid boat ? You have got us all wondering now mate .
shall we call it 97.5 % down from 98 %?
Can you elaborate on lithium s fire risk in the med engine rooms ambient north of70 *C if only to reasure us ?
Any rational debate…. Are you capable ?
No worries Paul if you aren’t ,
As I mentioned further up a big ship vehicle transportation Co has now declined carting lithium batteries cars around the globe . What does that msg say ? And they are parked up in the hold .Stone cold .
Is there a difference on the margins when you fit Lithium s ? Churn a lead acid boat ? You have got us all wondering now mate .
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PaulRainbow
Well-Known Member
Are those cars using LifePO4 ? Thought not.
Fire risk for LifePO4 in a hot engine bay, zero, because the BMS will shut them down.
I have already suggested that the OP uses a professional to sort his issues, because he clearly doesn't possess the skills to do it himself.
Skipper Felice
Well-Known Member
This discussion is getting crazy: Is it religion ... Acid to LiFePO4 ... well this is great > HOT ENGINE ROOM and ... " the BMS will shut them down."
This is good news: just a bit heat - and some high-tech BMS will turn off your power.
Well - I have now 4 weeks of "deep insights into nautical electric". And this is great - I have not 10 years of yacht electric experience - this is quite new to me.
But I can tell you, that in my young life I earned a master in systems engineering and electronics, for about ten years I have build and designed large data centers for IBM ... and I still have some good knowledge in basic electrics. This Azimut 46 is an outstandig environment to build on my 40 years of technology experience.
Portofino
Well-Known Member
Why don’t boat builders say Ferretti group ( they do hundreds - multiple brands btw ) and sunseeker , Azimut / Benetti fit LifePO4as std ?
If you google then LifePO4 battery the disadvantages for mobos
Not exclusive but they seem to far out weigh the advantages longevity.
1- slow to charge - an 1 hr in the AM or pm @ anchor running the geny ( electric boat anyhow ) goes out of the window ?
1- they are heat sensitive more than traditional lead acid = so do we need to cut bigger holes in the side of our boats ?
and then run them down running fans ? Or have longer connects to waste valuable storage in a cabin ?
Sure they will be theory last longer but with a mob ( + geny ) with a 2000 L tankage or more it’s what less than a
1/3 rd fill of one fill up price to re place lead acid .
€10000 on fuel x 4 to 5 seasons ( 50 k blown on diesel )
compared with what €800? For 4 180 ah in the same time .
Where are we going with recommending LifePO4 to the OP )
Why ?
I can see a small sail boat or merry fisher day boat without a geny …. The swing o meter tends towards LifePO4 : but not the op s lovely AZ
If you google then LifePO4 battery the disadvantages for mobos
Not exclusive but they seem to far out weigh the advantages longevity.
1- slow to charge - an 1 hr in the AM or pm @ anchor running the geny ( electric boat anyhow ) goes out of the window ?
1- they are heat sensitive more than traditional lead acid = so do we need to cut bigger holes in the side of our boats ?
and then run them down running fans ? Or have longer connects to waste valuable storage in a cabin ?Sure they will be theory last longer but with a mob ( + geny ) with a 2000 L tankage or more it’s what less than a
1/3 rd fill of one fill up price to re place lead acid .
€10000 on fuel x 4 to 5 seasons ( 50 k blown on diesel )
compared with what €800? For 4 180 ah in the same time .
Where are we going with recommending LifePO4 to the OP )
Why ?
I can see a small sail boat or merry fisher day boat without a geny …. The swing o meter tends towards LifePO4 : but not the op s lovely AZ
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PaulRainbow
Well-Known Member
Would you rather the BMS didn't shut down ? If, as i suggested, you have a professionally installed system you shouldn't get over heating problems. I'm not there looking at your boat, i'm trying to asisst from a distance, or at least i was.
Marine electronics and in particular, LifePO4 are specialised subjects, data centres are entirely different.
PaulRainbow
Well-Known Member
Google isn't an alternative for your own knowledge or experience, as you amply show. The advantages of LifePO4 apply to mobos as well as sailboats. I have a 45ft Princess and Lithium works extremely well, with 100% electric systems, no gas and no need to run the genny.
That's the most ridiculous thing i've heard about LiePO4. FAST charging is one of the biggest benefits of Life PO4. You can charge them at 1C and they will take all of that from 10% SOC (safe minimum) to almost 100% SOC, lead acid, nothing like it. I can charge my LfePO4 domestics from 10% to fully charged in less than 2 hours. Especially useful when using solar power, as one gets all the available solar yield, unlike LA, where the charging significantly starts tailing off at 80% and takes hours and hours to get to 100%, wasting solar yield and severely reducing battery life.
We just need a competent person to plan the installation, not a keyboard electrician who doesn't know an amp from and amp hour.1- they are heat sensitive more than traditional lead acid = so do we need to cut bigger holes in the side of our boats ?
Completely backwards, the greater the power requirements the more LifePO4 would be a benefit.
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Portofino
Well-Known Member
Yeh they are now days
Here s what google says about the charge rates and power density- might be useful for 10 L v8 diesel starting batts :?or Not !
PaulRainbow
Well-Known Member
314Ah of LifePO4 takes up the same space as a single 110Ah LA battery nad weighs less.
It can be charges at .5C, that's 157A, from 10% SOC to almost 100% SOC, try that with LA.
Life PO4 are now cheaper than LA.
Googling out of date articles further illustrates your lack of knowledge and understanding of the subject matter.
MapisM
Well-Known Member
P, just for clarity: I only suggested that as a temporary/quick/rough check of negative pressure inside the e/r, nothing else.
But while you are mentioning your 42, did you ever experience a delta T of 40°C inside her e/r at cruising speed? Or on your previous 39?
MapisM
Well-Known Member
That's nowhere near as annoying as cutting and pasting unashamedly whatever he finds on google that supports (or better said, he thinks it does) his theories.
Portofino
Well-Known Member
LifePO4 Are fine for small spaces , small boats particularly sail with no geny .
They are also fine in other weight ( and space ) saving applications eg racing : sports cars lighter weight versions . They have a place in these cars but it’s not the engine compartment usually remote .
Whether they are suitable in a bigger boat eg this AZ 46 in its Med summer “ sauna “ ER is another Q and the balance tips back to OEM installation. Lead acid . Bear in mind the boats equipped with a geny and decent main engines which run to move the boat simultaneously charging .
Fire risk
This is something an owner changing out to LifePO4 needs to discuss with his insurance Co before proceeding.
They are also fine in other weight ( and space ) saving applications eg racing : sports cars lighter weight versions . They have a place in these cars but it’s not the engine compartment usually remote .
Whether they are suitable in a bigger boat eg this AZ 46 in its Med summer “ sauna “ ER is another Q and the balance tips back to OEM installation. Lead acid . Bear in mind the boats equipped with a geny and decent main engines which run to move the boat simultaneously charging .
Fire risk
This is something an owner changing out to LifePO4 needs to discuss with his insurance Co before proceeding.
Portofino
Well-Known Member
Why aren’t the big builders fitting LifePO4 batteries standard?
jakew009
Well-Known Member
The discussion about engine room temps is a total nonsense. Most LiFePO4 batteries are rated for higher temperatures than lead acid anyway!
For instance, see what Victron say here: Gel and AGM batteries maximum ambient temperature - VictronEnergy
piratos
Well-Known Member
Oh Yes - because their ships are (at least not yet) fitted with the firefighting e
Those ships stopped transporting E-Cars for the only reason that they need different firefighting, and you just do not change the firefighting on a carcarrier in service....
Many ferries needed to update their firefighting for same reason.
I also need to change/update my system but actually I first stopped reading this thread because it went crazy, then saw it grow and grow and looked again. Yes I have learned something but there is too much discussion outside the actual topic,
PaulRainbow
Well-Known Member
You don't listen or learn very well.
