Azimut 46 - new battery charger system plus service/house batteries, engines battery and gen. battery

[Skipper Felice]

Forgot to bring in air conditioning.
We ran a 42K btu system.
Even while motoring to our next anchorage I would run the geny ( charger off as alternators on ) to run the AC . To chill the boat down so we could sleep.

We had a zero gas boat ….. so inevitably needed 220 v sometime during a day . 3 burner hob

I suspect these would kill via an inverter only …. Very shortly a battery system. Even yours expensively:

The geny gobbled 2 -3 L/hr of diesel.
The main engine s 180 to 200 out of 2000 L tank age .

Running the silent geny was a no brainer . The ops AZ 46 I suspect will copy this usage pattern .
It’s well trodden path in the Med once Mobos get over a certain size .

That’s the dichotomy I was referring to .

Yes - it goes into this direction ...

I think our generator is very valuable - at the moment he has only around 600 hrs.
The previous owners (1. + 2. owner) have fitted three air conditioning units (.....) (Cruiseair). They run very well and are controlled independently. All running is about 15A @ 220V AC. (appx. 3.5 kWh) in the marina this is no problem - shore power ... the ONLY possibillity to run this offshore is with the running generator ....

As I am not a big friend of permanent airco - but as of theese days with 35deg outside and enjoing the boat in the marina it is a pleasure and some luxury to have 25deg inside!

 

[Skipper Felice]

We are, as i said earlier, 100% electric. We run the whole boat off of the inverter all of the time, no issues regarding the inverter coping. Our discrete solar array, above the cockpit enclosure, keeps up with consumption most of the time in the Summer, in the OK (would keep up all of the time in the Med). If the Sun doesn't shine enough the inverter/charger is programmed to cut in for a short time to keep the batteries happy.

NOT using the genny is the no-brainer.

We are full time liveaboard on a 100% electric 45ft mobo. You are stuck in the dark ages with no concept of how modern power systems have evolved.

I fully agree with you - you can bring the whole consumption to a very low level. And adding solar is the best way to top your energy during the the day. At the moment in the med. we have full sunshine 12 hrs. a day.

Last year I had the pleasure to cruise with a Greenline 40, 5 year old boat, 1 Yanmar engine (appx. 400PS), victron electric, battery system not known (I guess GEL or AGM), PLUS around 6 m2 solar on the roof. We had been independent for many days.

 

[prinex]

Porto has a point there, electric advances etc but at the end of the day the generator just works and if the days are like yesterday (zero wind and 30 degrees even by night) you need power and a lot of it, no questions asked, no "but the batteries are 80%", just push the button and prompt 14.4KW, aircon everywhere, charger humming along etc.

We are going to install the inverter, first stage when is hot weather we use normal dyson-style tower fans to move the air a bit around, open hatches / doors so the inverter should enable this, but I remember last year in Croatia we had days with 32 degrees at 3 am and only thing that helped was aircon and genset.

Also I dont like to run my batteries (400ah at 24v) down to 50%, aircon is 1.5kw cabins only, that is 62 A per hour at 24V. I would be done in 3 hours anyway and if we forget to switch it off etc then we will have to run the genset another 4 hours to recharge them.

If I had to run aircon for 8 hours over 12-14 hours, that would be 500A. I would need another 6 12V 200Ah batteries and still would be down 50%.

There is a company selling some kind of inverter with mega-battery for boats, they claimed no worries electricity etc - looked into it was like 50K Euro for the 15KW package (all Lithium btw) - and still it was 350 A usable before you hit 50%.

So I guess is just how it is, over a certain size there is still no real alternative to a generator unless you have some mega-budget maybe. Or you have a power catamaran and can plaster the top with 30sqm solar panels and install 20 200Ah batteries, or a barge you can tow with the batteries on it.

 

[prinex]

Last year I had the pleasure to cruise with a Greenline 40, 5 year old boat, 1 Yanmar engine (appx. 400PS), victron electric, battery system not known (I guess GEL or AGM), PLUS around 6 m2 solar on the roof. We had been independent for many days.

Well the Greenline is purpose-built to be an electric boat, quite a difference from your / my Azi !

 

[PaulRainbow]

@PaulRainbow what do you make your switches panels out of?

https://rainbowmarine.co.uk/wp-cont...erly-Fulmar-Switch-Panel-1-e1740831299230.jpg

I have them made Pete, from Lasermax

 

[PaulRainbow]

Porto has a point there, electric advances etc but at the end of the day the generator just works and if the days are like yesterday (zero wind and 30 degrees even by night) you need power and a lot of it, no questions asked, no "but the batteries are 80%", just push the button and prompt 14.4KW, aircon everywhere, charger humming along etc.

We are going to install the inverter, first stage when is hot weather we use normal dyson-style tower fans to move the air a bit around, open hatches / doors so the inverter should enable this, but I remember last year in Croatia we had days with 32 degrees at 3 am and only thing that helped was aircon and genset.

Also I dont like to run my batteries (400ah at 24v) down to 50%, aircon is 1.5kw cabins only, that is 62 A per hour at 24V. I would be done in 3 hours anyway and if we forget to switch it off etc then we will have to run the genset another 4 hours to recharge them.

If I had to run aircon for 8 hours over 12-14 hours, that would be 500A. I would need another 6 12V 200Ah batteries and still would be down 50%.

There is a company selling some kind of inverter with mega-battery for boats, they claimed no worries electricity etc - looked into it was like 50K Euro for the 15KW package (all Lithium btw) - and still it was 350 A usable before you hit 50%.

So I guess is just how it is, over a certain size there is still no real alternative to a generator unless you have some mega-budget maybe. Or you have a power catamaran and can plaster the top with 30sqm solar panels and install 20 200Ah batteries, or a barge you can tow with the batteries on it.

If you're running aircon then you need lots of batteries and solar panels, i'm not advocating that. But, you can still have Lithium with or without solar, they take up less space, weigh less, cost less and charge very fast compared to lead acid, so you run the genny for less if you need to top the batteries up. Additionally, you can safely discharge Lithium to 10% SOC.

There isn't a once size fits all with power systems, but for the boats being discussed here, Lithium is a good solution and solar is a game changer. Nothing to say you cannot keep the genny, we still have ours, it's just that we don't need to use it during the Summer (we don't have aircon).

 

[MapisM]

I have them made Pete, from Lasermax

Pete's link made me curious to have a look at your website.
Which in turn made me wonder if this page was inspired by this thread!

 

[PaulRainbow]

Pete's link made me curious to have a look at your website.
Which in turn made me wonder if this page was inspired by this thread!

Those have been there for a while, i need to update it with some of the more recent bodge jobs i've had to fix.

 

[prinex]

There isn't a once size fits all with power systems, but for the boats being discussed here, Lithium is a good solution and solar is a game changer. Nothing to say you cannot keep the genny, we still have ours, it's just that we don't need to use it during the Summer (we don't have aircon).

Absolutely, I will go the solar route so to keep inverter and fans happy (sun permitting but in Greece there is a LOT of it).

And resort to the genset when its absolutely aircon time (is already on a separate circuit and cannot be feed from the inverter).

 

[Portofino]

If you're running aircon then you need lots of batteries and solar panels, i'm not advocating that. But, you can still have Lithium with or without solar, they take up less space, weigh less, cost less and charge very fast compared to lead acid, so you run the genny for less if you need to top the batteries up. Additionally, you can safely discharge Lithium to 10% SOC.

There isn't a once size fits all with power systems, but for the boats being discussed here, Lithium is a good solution and solar is a game changer. Nothing to say you cannot keep the genny, we still have ours, it's just that we don't need to use it during the Summer (we don't have aircon).

Thing is additionally we are running our boats , travelling places as intended design wise . So motors running and shore power ( normally) @ the destinations. With a bit of anchoring off sprinkled in the season .
We don’t mind funding leccy on shore power or having “ free “ 220 V on the geny .
Some of us have hard standing property to “live “ in as well as an alternative to the boat when @ home port .

 

[PaulRainbow]

Thing is additionally we are running our boats , travelling places as intended design wise . So motors running and shore power ( normally) @ the destinations. With a bit of anchoring off sprinkled in the season .
We don’t mind funding leccy on shore power or having “ free “ 220 V on the geny .
Some of us have hard standing property to “live “ in as well as an alternative to the boat when @ home port .

Totally irrelevant to anything i've said.

What boat are you travelling to places in ? What is the current power arrangement on you boat ? Does it have solar panels ?

 

[Portofino]

Totally irrelevant to anything i've said.

What boat are you travelling to places in ? What is the current power arrangement on you boat ? Does it have solar panels ?

Mapish M over to you on this one , our power arrangement is similar to yours ,
To make no noticeable comment from me with the numbers

But we did like AC as it’s silent frigomar Brushless DC . We were early adapters back in the day .

Blokes asking me and I get accused the answer to all boating woes buy an … is ( insert my boat marque ) I am learning

 

[Portofino]

Paul not wanting to cut the hand that feeds you - lovebirds , (sp ) I mean live aboards and RV, “ van lifers “ floating or over wise ? but as said once a mobo goes over a certain size ( dare not say as to ingnite another argument) you just fire up the geny .
Pumps charge into the lead acids .
In the med “sauna “ ER

Knowing there’s shore power some time soon .

If it ant broke .:.::::: etc etc

Price of a batt replenishing nothing more the gen scheme of costs especially as you don’t have to do the lugging .

What’s not to like staying OEM ?

Pleeeeees don’t tell me you are trying to save the planet !

 

[PaulRainbow]

I would insert a giant yawning smiley here, but i got banned for that once

 

[markc]

This is a really interesting thread (mostly, if you catch my drift). I never feel like we have enough battery power... we have 4 x 190 AH (24v) domestic and 2 x 190ah engine, plus 2 others for the stern thruster (not sure their size). On anchor I normally run the genny in the morning and the evening for a total of 2 hours and still feel that I have to monitor the consumption. We usually show 24.4v in the morning. Main thing is 3 fridges that seem to use the most power. What brought this into sharp focus was on Saturday I had a fried main breaker and had to wait until Monday to get a replacement. This meant we had no shore power or genny for nearly 48 hours...I feel like I had to ration power to make sure we didn't over deplete the batteries. At the time I was wishing we had solar to top us up.

However, memories fade quick and currently sitting at anchor with the 19kva genny chugging away, air con blasting drinking a cold beer!

Based on this tread, when the next battery change is required I'm now going to seriouly look at Lithium , inverter and solar!

 

[Portofino]

This is a really interesting thread (mostly, if you catch my drift). I never feel like we have enough battery power... we have 4 x 190 AH (24v) domestic and 2 x 190ah engine, plus 2 others for the stern thruster (not sure their size). On anchor I normally run the genny in the morning and the evening for a total of 2 hours and still feel that I have to monitor the consumption. We usually show 24.4v in the morning. Main thing is 3 fridges that seem to use the most power. What brought this into sharp focus was on Saturday I had a fried main breaker and had to wait until Monday to get a replacement. This meant we had no shore power or genny for nearly 48 hours...I feel like I had to ration power to make sure we didn't over deplete the batteries. At the time I was wishing we had solar to top us up.

However, memories fade quick and currently sitting at anchor with the 19kva genny chugging away, air con blasting drinking a cold beer!

Based on this tread, when the next battery change is required I'm now going to seriouly look at Lithium , inverter and solar!

Haliday marine ?

 

[markc]

Haliday marine ?

For what?

 

[Portofino]

For what?

Mail order next day delivery on Porquerolle . You were there recently.

 

[markc]

Mail order next day delivery on Porquerolle . You were there recently.

Nope, just went to Rexel and bought the bits and fitted them. Anchored in Lerins now

 

[jakew009]

This is a really interesting thread (mostly, if you catch my drift). I never feel like we have enough battery power... we have 4 x 190 AH (24v) domestic and 2 x 190ah engine, plus 2 others for the stern thruster (not sure their size). On anchor I normally run the genny in the morning and the evening for a total of 2 hours and still feel that I have to monitor the consumption. We usually show 24.4v in the morning. Main thing is 3 fridges that seem to use the most power. What brought this into sharp focus was on Saturday I had a fried main breaker and had to wait until Monday to get a replacement. This meant we had no shore power or genny for nearly 48 hours...I feel like I had to ration power to make sure we didn't over deplete the batteries. At the time I was wishing we had solar to top us up.

However, memories fade quick and currently sitting at anchor with the 19kva genny chugging away, air con blasting drinking a cold beer!

Based on this tread, when the next battery change is required I'm now going to seriouly look at Lithium , inverter and solar!

If you rearranged your batteries a bit, you could probably fit 8x 300Ah lithium in the same space which would give you around 30kWh of capacity.

If your air con is similar to @prinex above at 1.5kw, you could run the AC for nearly 20 hours continuously on batteries only.

To charge it back up again you could bang in say 400A @24V from your 19kva generator from a bank of chargers. That would fully recharge the batteries in 3 hours or so.

So basically run generator for 3 hours a day and run off batteries all the rest of the time enjoying silent AC.

Your generator will be happy because it’s always running at 75% plus load and will be clocking a fraction of the hours.

I reckon you could do the whole thing including inverters for sub 10 grand fitted.

8 batteries 650 each
2x multiplus 3000/24 700 quid each
6x 50A chargers £150 each
Bus bar, fuses, shunt, Cerbo, consumer unit, wire, crimps £1500

Total 9k. Plus say 1500 labour to fit it.

If you still wanted charging from the engines get both alternators connected to the existing start bank and then fit a couple of Victron XS 1400 DC/DC chargers. 100A @24V. Would fully charge the house bank from completely empty in about 10 hours. Another 800 quid fitted.