Attracted to Sailing but ....

[obmij]

and most yachts use their motors 70% of the time anyway.

This is the inconvenient truth.

So why do most yachts use their engines so much?

I don't think you need to be young and bendy as such, but you do need to be motivated. The dream is to sail from anchorage to anchorage, steady breeze and fair tide - drop the hook, glass of wine with lunch and then off you sail back to your berth with maybe a well executed gybe or two to keep things interesting.

The reality, in the UK at least is that at least one of the elements will be against you most of the time you are on the water. It's a cliche but the wind is generally coming from the direction you would like to go - so a straight forward passage in a MB becomes a 200 tack ordeal with a VMG of 1 knot and an ETA of two hours after the pub shuts..unless you put the engine on.

Then there is the foul tide - might make a bit more progress with a few HP..or the need to punch through a confused sea state, much easier with the donk to lend a hand, and let's not mention tidal gates or weather windows.

Practicalities are not as straightforward either. Will you be sailing solo or two up with a partner of similar experience? If so, be aware that something as simple as putting a reef in can be an absolute pita on a small yacht in a bouncy sea-state. Actually, putting a TACK in can turn into an elemental struggle given a certain set of circumstances.

The above does not apply in a MB. You point and shoot and it is what it is. If you use your engine 70% of the time in a yacht then really what is the point? Your vessel will be slower, less efficient and less comfortable than a MB of similar length.

That is not to say that you should not go for it - but be aware that sailing is not all 'plain sailing' - and if you use your motor more than your sails you are probably better off with a motor boat (as are most sailors if we are honest)

 

[Chiara’s slave]

The above does not apply in a powerful sailing boat either. We rarely motor, maybe think about it if theres less that 3 or 4 knots of breeze. However, small sailing boats can make headway in adverse conditions, it’s a part of the art. You do need time though. The explosion of sailing as a weekend pursuit for working age people is due to the ability of modern sailing boats to motor.

 

[wooster]

This is good stuff. Thank you for sharing. I'm keen at least to have a go. In looking at Gravesend Club here and Hickling Broad in Norfolk as I am currently moored at Reedham.

 

[xyachtdave]

and most yachts use their motors 70% of the time anyway.

Apparently 83% of the boats didn’t leave a local marina once in a calendar year according to the lock statistics.

Given that the OP will do well to get out at all whether under sail or power!

 

[The Q]

There all sorts of styles of boats, some you can be very unfit to sail..

 

[obmij]

The flip side of the coin is that completing a voyage without putting the donkey on can be immensely satisfying - especially if conditions have not entirely been in your favour.

Sitting out a foul tide at anchor, watching a procession of yachts chug chug chug away against it can be a thing of beauty. If you have the freedom to change your destination to one at the end of a comfortable wind direction then that is the most seamanlike thing to do! Knocking around in harbour over a blustery weekend is a sound decision when a week of fair winds will follow - and what is the harm in missing last orders when the pub will be open tomorrow and you can make the most of an evening breeze?

As CS rightly points out - it is an art and can only really be practiced by people with time.

So, bendiness not required, flexibility essential!

 

[ylop]

Where did this talk of racing little boats that may capsize come from? Wooster said in his first post that he didn’t want to race, but to gently cruise.

Well the OP including a picture of a Laser being sailed with someone hiking out.

Go for it! If you've had a motor boat then you are 90% of the way there already. A sailing boat is just a motor boat with sails and they are optional, you don't have to put a sail up if you are not comfortable with it.

but there will be compromises (draft, air draft, possible top speed, possibly interior space, other equipment to maintain/replace) that come from sailing boats so if he’s never going to benefit it makes no sense.

and most yachts use their motors 70% of the time anyway.

I would dispute this. My experience is the opposite - 70+% sailing; as far as I can see from watching others we are not that unusual.

The reality, in the UK at least is that at least one of the elements will be against you most of the time you are on the water.

I think that might have been the navigation challenge the OP says he quite fancies. I often describe my destination as “wherever the wind takes me” but it would be more accurate to say “one of the destinations where the wind is blowing the right way and the forecast is good for next destination / come home too”. Picking the destination before a reliable forecast is available is exactly how you end up frustrated and motoring all the time.

 

[Sailing steve]

This is the inconvenient truth.

So why do most yachts use their engines so much?

I don't think you need to be young and bendy as such, but you do need to be motivated. The dream is to sail from anchorage to anchorage, steady breeze and fair tide - drop the hook, glass of wine with lunch and then off you sail back to your berth with maybe a well executed gybe or two to keep things interesting.

The reality, in the UK at least is that at least one of the elements will be against you most of the time you are on the water. It's a cliche but the wind is generally coming from the direction you would like to go - so a straight forward passage in a MB becomes a 200 tack ordeal with a VMG of 1 knot and an ETA of two hours after the pub shuts..unless you put the engine on.

Then there is the foul tide - might make a bit more progress with a few HP..or the need to punch through a confused sea state, much easier with the donk to lend a hand, and let's not mention tidal gates or weather windows.

Practicalities are not as straightforward either. Will you be sailing solo or two up with a partner of similar experience? If so, be aware that something as simple as putting a reef in can be an absolute pita on a small yacht in a bouncy sea-state. Actually, putting a TACK in can turn into an elemental struggle given a certain set of circumstances.

The above does not apply in a MB. You point and shoot and it is what it is. If you use your engine 70% of the time in a yacht then really what is the point? Your vessel will be slower, less efficient and less comfortable than a MB of similar length.

That is not to say that you should not go for it - but be aware that sailing is not all 'plain sailing' - and if you use your motor more than your sails you are probably better off with a motor boat (as are most sailors if we are honest)

Exactly this.

If you're accustomed to simply pointing in the direction you want to go and opening the throttle then the challenges of fickle winds and contrary tides and the art of overcoming them under sail don't always appeal.

And yes, I'm just as guilty of reaching for the engine start button when plans go off piste as many other sailors seem to be

 

[mjcoon]

The flip side of the coin is that completing a voyage without putting the donkey on can be immensely satisfying - especially if conditions have not entirely been in your favour.

Yes, our favourite instances were sailing up a river gorge in Croatia: www.mjcoon.plus.com/page35.htm
Lots of short-tacking and dodging motor-boats...

 

[oldmanofthehills]

The reality of limited time duration yachting is that you will need and use the engine for up to 50% of the time. Perhaps you have 3 days, a long weekend. No wind today but you can motor to nice harbour and wind is set to blow you back at the end of your break. Or the wind is fair to get you to nice harbour but no favourable return wind for 10 days and all sensible return times have wind on the nose and major chop due to crossing tide streams - again a good motor comes in handy.

Of course many of the miles sailed by yachts are engine free, crossing the atlantic is sail only and adds many miles so the 30% of engine usage probably includes that mile accumulator

We are doing a sail or engine bimble ourselves next week - Plymouth Looe Falmouth perhaps - but we must return to host a climbing meet so must not get stuck and weather anything from F8 to F1 according to conflicting forecasts. A keen weather eye and our friendly 25hp should sort it and there some nice F4 at time. Sail will be hoisted - put away when the iron topsail alone is best - or hoisted as a steadying sail when motoring.

Perhaps I will retire and stop organising events and have more freedom to just go with the wind, or perhaps not!

 

[steveeasy]

The flip side of the coin is that completing a voyage without putting the donkey on can be immensely satisfying - especially if conditions have not entirely been in your favour.

Sitting out a foul tide at anchor, watching a procession of yachts chug chug chug away against it can be a thing of beauty. If you have the freedom to change your destination to one at the end of a comfortable wind direction then that is the most seamanlike thing to do! Knocking around in harbour over a blustery weekend is a sound decision when a week of fair winds will follow - and what is the harm in missing last orders when the pub will be open tomorrow and you can make the most of an evening breeze?

As CS rightly points out - it is an art and can only really be practiced by people with time.

So, bendiness not required, flexibility essential!

recently sailed yes sailed from Crinan to Oban. As I left the lock a chap said surely your not setting off now. I replied yes. The wind was going to be on the nose the whole way and an unfavourable tide most of the time.
Admittedly I had to tack a few times to avoid the odd rock!!! But a most enjoyable day. Now I could have waited 6 hours but had a very enjoyable day on the water.
Most entertaining watching so many other sail boats all motoring.

Steveeasy

 

[Geoff Wode]

I have found a couple of sailing clubs near to my home and where my boat is currently moored which aren't too expensive. They do RYA 1 and 2 courses which I believe should give me an opportunity to find out how suited I am. As long as all this leaning over the side of the boat as in my picture isn't compulsory I am cautiously optimistic that I might be able to make a go of it, at least to some extent and in some conditions.

My advice would not be to do 1&2 at a local club in dinghies. You have good idea of the kind of sailing you want to do and that sounds like cruising to me.
Find somewhere with keelboats for 1&2 or choose the RYA cruising pathway. You already have experience. Why not build on it rather than adopting a whole new discipline in the hope that the skills acquired will transfer to yachts later?

 

[Chiara’s slave]

There all sorts of styles of boats, some you can be very unfit to sail..
View attachment 183849

Flippin’ eck, have you ever sailed one? Ok on a lake, but the slightest ripple and you’re drenched. On the flip side, you just lie there. They are great training for real sailing too, you can see the sail shape, and tinker as you go along. I don’t think our potential convert wants that though. A slightly sporty pocket cruiser should fit the bill.

 

[Dellquay13]

Well the OP including a picture of a Laser being sailed with someone hiking out.

I’m not trying to be picky or argumentative in any way but the picture was described in the original post;
“Pictures like the attached are hardly inspiring. I know everyone says age is just a number and never too old and all that stuff, but I'm not able to do these type of acrobatics.”

 

[wooster]

Good day people. Can I just clarify that I am not interested in racing at all and just looking for more sedate cruising along lakes and rivers. If experience allows, I'd like to extend this to coastal sailing but nothing too adventurous.

I honestly know nothing about sailing and I attached the picture because I wasn't sure if this leaning out stuff was something that was part of all sailing activity including the type I described above. Also it seemed to me that some of the clubs I looked at offered training on small laser type boats which might require this anyway. I had thought that it was in some way necessary for me to complete the training as prescribed.

I am assuming from the confusion this has caused that I can avoid training on such craft and that the cruising I\m interested in doesn't require the type of activity in the picture. If this is indeed the case, it makes me feel a bit more positive.

Apologies for my ignorance and for muddying the waters

 

[ylop]

Wooster - there’s no need to apologise. There are people here who would advocate that dinghy sailing is the ideal way to learn. There is a lot to be said for it, but it’s certainly not the only route, or even at a particular age the ideal route.

I’m going to go out on a limb and say that at 70 I’m not sure I’d be looking at a 24’er. Of course there are 70 yr olds who run marathons, ski, climb mountains and there are 70 yr old who can barely walk to the shops so it’s a poor gauge of fitness and flexibility. But I suspect it might be too crampt to be useful inside (like camping rather than comfort) and at the awkward end of manoeuvring on land for someone looking at lakes and the sea. Are you looking for something to use overnight? If so unless you are hardy - bigger might be better and then let someone else handle the lift out etc. Or if you are day sailing then something like a drascombe has a lot of appeal for lazy messing around: will need a vehicle for launching etc but no messing around with stays to get the mast up etc…

 

[Wansworth]

I recall a while back an oldish man came down with his dog at exactly therightstateofthe tide to get aboard his Lymington scow which he and the dog sailed very sedately off the mooring and out to sea,returning on time to wade ashore from his drying mooring.

 

[Concerto]

Wooster, being 70 should be no problem to learn to sail. I am 70 and have been sailing since 1965. Two years ago I sailed singlehanded round Britian via the top of Shetland, so age is not a problem - just mind over matter.

The suggestion of Medway Yacht Club is good advice or you if want something quicker you could book a course with Elite Sailing at Chatham Marina to see if you like sailing. Elite Sailing | Training and Adventure Elite will use a 35ft boat, but the principles are the same to see if you like sailing.

As you are coming from motor boats, I assume this is a planing hull rather than a displacement hull. If this is the case, then you could consider a power trailer sailer like a MacGregor 26X. It will meet headroom and toilet requirements and can sleep up to 6 in reasonable comfort. You can then tow the boat to different sailing areas with a suitable towing vehicle. It is not a performance sailing boat but with a 50Hp outboard you can put it up on the plane if you want to get home quickly. There are plenty of YouTube videos you can watch. This one would certainly suit. Macgregor 26X for sale UK, Macgregor boats for sale, Macgregor used boat sales, Macgregor Sailing Yachts For Sale MacGregor 26X trailer sailer - Apollo Duck

 

[wooster]

Thank you for this. My current boat is a displacement hull and is a typical Broads cruiser. I am based at Reedham which is pretty tidal and has strong currents and I can only get out of my marina at certain times so I'm used to having to fit in with conditions. Obviously I don't need to worry about wind direction etc and I have no experience of the sea.

I would ideally like a sailboat which can sleep at the very least 4 adults. I was considering a smaller boat because my wife is not quite so keen on this as me and I would imagine much of my sailing would be alone. I found a site with a Canadian instructor who had been saying she wouldn't recommend anything much over 24ft for this. Of course I understand that there's a lot of factors to balance and honestly I'd be happy to go bigger if this wouldn't be3 too difficult for me on my own

 

[Chiara’s slave]

We’ve experienced a fair bit of size inflation in recent times. People used to start sail cruising in 20-24 footers, nowadays something with only a 3 in front of it is quite conservative it seems. However, you don’t need a lecture on what that does to your running costs, you already have a hole in the water to pour money into. 4 adults is tight on any 24 footer. Bigger isn’t harder by any means. Some of the gear may be heavier, and single handing becomes a bit trickier. Another chat on here after you’ve blagged a ride or 2 might help. See if you can try a smaller craft and something in the 28-30ft range.