attaching anchor rope to chain

[Freebee]

My boat has a winch with a special wheel for the chain as well as drum for rope. If I attach the rope to the chain with a splice ,when deploying will the rope pass round the chain wheel Ok.

And when I retrieve it do I start with rope drum them somehow let the chain go round the chain wheel?

 

[jerryat]

Hi Mike,

Some windlasses have a gypsy that is designed for both rope and chain. If yours is one of these, the rope is simply fed onto the the gypsy and the splice will go round it with little or no problem if the splice has been is properly done.

If the above is not the case, the drum is used for hauling the warp aboard as far as the chain, which is then transferred to the gypsy for the rest of the scope.

Even if you have a rope/chain gypsy, it may sometimes may slip, so it's worth being 'on hand' when the splice arrives at the windlass just to give it a helping hand if needed.

Hope this helps

Cheers Jerry

 

[duncan]

this in the flyer Mike?

agree with what's said but would add the following -

(1) going down is easy
(2) fit enough chain to enable you to use the regular anchorages (Swanage.Studland.PHarbour) with the chain in calm weather. I have played with 7m, 30m and settled on 17. This means I can always go up to the bow to take in any warp and get past the splice whilst remaining firmly anchored. Then I can recover the rest from the helm and control the boat when required.
The only time I use the drum is when single handed in deep water. Here I thought 30m would do the same thing but of course a lot of the grounds off Swanage and Poole Bay are just on 30m so switching over from the drum to the gypsy meant using a chain hook and playing with 45kg of chain plus an anchor /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Hope this helps explain - make sure you have a good match up of warp diameter and chain to the gypsy - have met people who use (too) thin warp with the drum at all times without realising the gypsy will work fine if they had 14mm instead of 10/12!

See you on the water - or in the Banks Arms?

 

[Freebee]

yes the flyer has chain only, its a are fair amount but last owner said also needs rope so have obtained a very long length of quite big dia rope probably 50 metres, ive seen two web sites showing splices, either down the chain or through the chain and spliced back onto itself. I think down the chain will be less bulky and have a smoother transition, its 3 strand rope so cant be difficult can it?

 

[bumblefish]

Sorry to jump on this topic, what is the preferred method for mooring with chain, that is how do you attach to the boat, Sampson post or other? And do you always have a snubber or other snatch device?

 

[hylass]

[ QUOTE ]
do you always have a snubber or other snatch device?

[/ QUOTE ]
You should...

Mainly for two reasons:

1°) never leave the chain on the winlass gipsy (or at least, never leave the chain exert a continuous effort on the winlass)

2°) You should ALWAYS have a kind of elasticity in your mooring rode, and the "catenary" of the chain itself is not enough.. (see the matematical explanation on:

"Tuning an anchor rode" : http://alain.fraysse.free.fr/sail/rode/rode_b.htm

 

[GMac]

We do 25-30 'Rope to chain' rodes for the Auto rope to Chain winches a week.

Important points to get right:
1, The chain MUST be the right size for the gypsy.
2, As a rule (98% of the time)
6 or 7mm chain goes onto 12mm rope
8mm to 14mm rope
the 10mm is a bit trickier as it can be to 16, 18 or 20mm depending on the winch.
3, The splice is very important or it will just cause problems.
4, Use a good quality rope. Cheap nylons, especially, will go hard quick and just give grief. The extra few $$ spent on the rope will pay off in the long run. Don't use polyprop.
5, Nylons work a lot better than polyesters.

Regarding the splice, we prefer the 'back splice' (not an 'eye splice', you're are right saying too bulky) over the 'down the chain'. I know someone above may disagree ;-) but done right it works best long term and strength loss is only what you would expect from a normal splice i.e 12-17% (tested many).

The problem, as we see it, with the 'down the chain' splice is that over time the rope hardens (just the nature of the beast, especially the cheap ones) and so the splice will make that section of the chain stiffer which makes it hard to bend around the gypsy. We have also seen the odd chain link (amongst the splice) work its way sideways which just jambs in the gypsy or if your real unlucky just blow the gypsy into 2 bits. Either is not good.

We have been doing it this way for many years and work closely with 2 local winch manufactuers testing both their new version winches and our products/splices on them. Both of the manufactuers prefer our method.

If you can provice a bit more info (make, model and chain size) on the winch I would be happy to tell you what we would use.

GMac

 

[bilbobaggins]

See 'Marlow Ropes' website for splicing chain to plaited ropes.

I can't quite visualise GMac's 'backsplice' recommendation, but would like some more detail, please, as this appears to find favour.

Mikehorril and others should be aware of the benefit of having a 'chain hook' ( available from any good chandlers ) on a suitable length of beefy rope, with an eye splice to drop over his bits/samson post/mooring cleat. Rigged, this takes the weight off the windlass.
A similar arrangement can be made, for rope anchor rode, by use of a rolling hitch - one of the four essential knots/bends which do 95% of all onboard rope tasks.

 

[GMac]

Here is what we do. It is the ‘base’ splice and we tweak each one a smidgen for different winch but they are all basically like this.

3 stand laid. –
1, open it up to get enough tail length for the splice and tape ends, usually about a fid length is fine.
2, Check the end link of chain for sharp bits of galvanising, rust or yucky bits. Get rid of any.
3, take ‘one’ of the tails thru from one side of the chain link and the other 2 thru the opposite way.
4, Splice back down the rope as you would normally i.e. under one – over the next and so on.
5, Generally we do 4 full tucks including the starter then reduce each tail by 50% and do another 3 tucks giving a tapered finished.

Key points:
1, you want to get the splice tight on the end link of chain – you do not want movement here. We are resplicing some of the older rodes now and have found that the rope around the link is fine but the chain link itself is the one showing age. We usually cut that link off and end for end the rope.
2, If you have an anchor which may spin (some we find tend to more than others i.e. Sarca, Delta, cheap Asian imports and most ‘bent’ ones) we whip the splice at the reduction. We also recommend the use of a GOOD swivel. We are fans of the ‘connector type’ like the one below. Stainless is best. We have yet to see any of the ‘corrosion’ issues that get mentioned and stainless will not rust up and stop working in a few weeks. Most of the swivels, which look like 2 shackles back to back to back to back, have very low break loads and we hate them.

The swivel above is a KONG out of Italy. They are OK but don’t over load them.

Hope all of that makes sense - big game of rugby last nite