Attaching a chain hook to line

[rob2]

Quite a lot of good points made here. As with so much gear on board, surely much depends on how it is to be used? If it is to be used occasionally for short term stops, then a bowline or eyesplice should suffice as it will be regularly viewed. Making the strop so that it can run right back to the sheet winches will offer greater elasticity and the benfit of being able to haul in from the cockpit.

The more heavy duty use of eyesplice, thimble and shackle - and the more elaborate double line through both fairleads - would be of benefit if you are using it on a mooring chain for long periods, such as on a swinging mooring.

Based on your planned usage, take your pick, but remember that, should it fail, the chain will take up the load.

Rob.

 

[G12]

Or Just use a rolling hitch and some nice stretchy nylon line.... works just the same.

 

[electrosys]

Thats what I thought I would do.......but I couldnt see any way of opening the thimble enough to be able to get the hook into it ( 20mm 3 strand rope sized galv thimble ).

So I too opted for the spliced thimble with big shackle approach, as per VO5.

Whoops - didn't realise we were talking serious 'ship' sizes ...

Up to 12mm or so, open thimbles can be opened 'sideways' of course ...

In my view - the best way of dealing with chafe, is to make provision for it in the first place - I think you've done the right thing.

 

[KellysEye]

We use a bowline and have had no trouble with it during a total anchoring time of nearly two years. Don't use a Caribiner they can come undone which is why they are not used on harness tethers. They were also banned for student parachute jumps after a number of fatalaties when the Caribener came undone.

 

[Poignard]

I just root out a spare length of rope and make a bowline.

But I rarely use the hook now, preferring a rolling hitch on the chain.

Before I had a windlass I used to use the hook to temporarily hold the chain whilst taking a breather, when hauling it in by hand

 

[Twister_Ken]

Thanks all.

Soft splice with a rubber-snubber in the line is the way I'll go.

 

[GMac]

Just splice it on. Thimbles cause wear and are the most common cause of rope failure in situations like this, chafe where it passes thru the bow roller area being the other.

A small eye splice or a rope to chain splice is better, less movement. Those SS hooks are fine and chafe isn't a worry.

Use a nylon one size down from what your anchor rode is and preferably a 8 braid, that way the snubber will work sooner and smoother. Don't make it a huge rope, that is a total waste of time. Longer is better than shorter.

Don't get 'some old rope from the shed', that is usual pasted it's used by date and has minimal elasticity. Most boats have 3-5mt long rode, buy a new bit, suss the off-cuts bin.

Most of those rubber shock absorber things don't last that well so when making the snubber try and make it so that can be swapped in and out easily. Personally I wouldn't bother with adding that.

We make, rebuild, repair 100's of them a year for boats from 5mt tinnies thru to 195ft superboats. KISS is a good principal to work on with these.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Before I had a windlass I used to use the hook to temporarily hold the chain whilst taking a breather, when hauling it in by hand

Just what we do, still don't have a windlass, just me own legs & back.

 

[Poignard]

Just what we do, still don't have a windlass, just me own legs & back.

Stout fellow!

If I had not been able to pick up a 'seized' Lofrans manual windlass for £20, and repair it for £10, I would still be using my legs and back.

I think I had better go and have a lie down - just the thought of it is making me feel tired!

 

[john_morris_uk]

I don't understand some of the posts - and I certainly don't quite understand the force of feeling behind some of them! Is it because its got something to do with anchoring? Is there some sort of psychological link with the fact that people sleep on their boats when they are anchored and are putting their trust in the gear and therefore subconsciously become emotionally attached to 'their' way of doing things and 'their' gear?

However back to the OP and his question.

Firstly, we have exactly the same chain hook. We inherited it with the boat and the only issue I have is that the line spliced onto it is a little too short to act as much of a snubber. I haven't got round to changing the line yet, but at least it takes the load off the windlass.

Secondly, this sort of chain hook is extremely easy to use and ours has NEVER fallen off. If you hook it on the chain and allow a good bight of chain to dangle down so the boat is hanging entirely on the nylon line and the hook is taking all the weight, our chain has never jumped out - even in the worst conditions. However as soon as I wind the windlass in and take the strain on the chain, a little jiggling of the nylon line to the hook and off it falls. Seemples; and very effective.

To those of you who say, 'just use a rolling hitch', I would say, have you ever tried this sort of hook? Its so quick and easy I put the hook on even when stopping for lunch. No kneeling on the foredeck tying knots, I can hook it on and be secure without even bending down too much. I lean over the bow and catch the chain with the hook, and then keep some tension on the nylon line as I press the 'windlass down' button with my foot and put the other end of the nylon line on a cleat.

(I have just re-read the above and I ought to point out that I don't sell these hooks and am not connected with the manufacturer in any way - even if it sounds like I am...)

Finally, I do not understand the post which says that thimbles are a cause of wear in lines. Since when? How? There was me thinking that thimbles prevented wear in lines...

For better or worse I inherited our hook with the line spliced onto a thimble and the thimble shackled onto the hook. If you choose to splice the line directly onto the hook, and watch out for wear, then that's fair enough, but I can't see the problem with a shackle and a thimble.

 

[Stu Jackson]

If one gets anywhere near "anchoring" as a topic, that's what happens. Just wait until another cooking topic comes up...

 

[prv]

To those of you who say, 'just use a rolling hitch', I would say, have you ever tried this sort of hook? Its so quick and easy I put the hook on even when stopping for lunch. No kneeling on the foredeck tying knots, I can hook it on and be secure without even bending down too much. I lean over the bow and catch the chain with the hook, and then keep some tension on the nylon line as I press the 'windlass down' button with my foot and put the other end of the nylon line on a cleat.

Perhaps the difference is that those of us without "windlass down" buttons are already communing more closely with the chain, so to quickly clap a rolling hitch onto it is no big deal. Not sure why "not bending down too much" is a selling point - perhaps it's an age thing?

I admit I don't usually put on a snubber for a short stop (just drop a couple of turns of chain round the samson post) but that's more because I can't be bothered to go aft and fish a warp out of the locker, which applies hook or no hook.

Pete

 

[john_morris_uk]

Perhaps the difference is that those of us without "windlass down" buttons are already communing more closely with the chain, so to quickly clap a rolling hitch onto it is no big deal. Not sure why "not bending down too much" is a selling point - perhaps it's an age thing?

I admit I don't usually put on a snubber for a short stop (just drop a couple of turns of chain round the samson post) but that's more because I can't be bothered to go aft and fish a warp out of the locker, which applies hook or no hook.

Pete

Ha - maybe its an age thing? Actually I was really trying to emphasise how simple it is to apply the chain hook.

Apologies if 'press the down button' sounded pretentious - but although I am fairly fit, I still balk at the thought of pulling in our anchor and nearly 50 metres of 10mm chain by hand.

 

[prv]

Apologies if 'press the down button' sounded pretentious

No, not at all - it's just a reflection of the relative size of our boats. I think a two-way powered windlass would be a strange sight on a 24-footer.

(I do have a manual windlass which I sometimes use, but it only winds upwards so letting chain out is always a hands-on operation.)

Pete

 

[billcowan]

I have this type of hook too,

But mine is spliced into the MIDDLE of a quite long soft nylon 3 strand rope.

this is good as the two ropes then come each side through the fairleads and onto the forward cleats, so no chafe, and the extra length gives more elasticity.

By the way, this hook is very useful in the 'French' method of preventing rolling when the swell is not coming from the same place as the wind.

You just take the snubber back to the CENTRE cleat, and then let out more chain until the boat faces into the swell.

The Americans have a complicated weighted flap gadget costing $100s that you hang into the water from the end of the boom out one side, it doesn't work.

The French just use lateral, or is that horizontal, thinking.

PS I have even seen the snubber onto the STERN cleat.

 

[GMac]

I don't understand some of the posts - and I certainly don't quite understand the force of feeling behind some of them! Is it because its got something to do with anchoring? Is there some sort of psychological link with the fact that people sleep on their boats when they are anchored and are putting their trust in the gear and therefore subconsciously become emotionally attached to 'their' way of doing things and 'their' gear?

Yeah probably but then it is gear that you do have to rely on while you and your kids are asleep so I suppose it is one area on your boat you don't want to do halfa**ed.

Finally, I do not understand the post which says that thimbles are a cause of wear in lines. Since when? How? There was me thinking that thimbles prevented wear in lines...

For better or worse I inherited our hook with the line spliced onto a thimble and the thimble shackled onto the hook. If you choose to splice the line directly onto the hook, and watch out for wear, then that's fair enough, but I can't see the problem with a shackle and a thimble.

More just a comment based on 3 reasons -
- With most thimbles coming out of the east (just as all of those style SS hooks are) so are pretty lightweight and if the wear through or bend in the middle they suddenly become a knife.... bye bye rope. Not saying all or even most will but we have seen it happen, almost exclusively with galv thimbles and galv shackles, so why not just eliminate that possibility all together by not using one in the 1st place.
- Thimbles and by the use of also meaning shackles, are just another thing to rattle, scratch paint, come undone at the wrong moment sort of things so as mentioned again not using them eliminates those possible issues.
- We have been splicing directly to the hook for well over a decade. That time has shown there are no strength lose or chafe issues. Note I am talking the mass produced SS hooks photoed earlier, with some other hooks there could be issues. Also that incudes using a good rope and splice obviously.

You can shackle and thimble if you like, we would seriously recommend using SS gear only though, but we just don't see that as being better, as noted above we think it's worse to a small degree, than splicing directly on. If you check your gear often all will be perfectly fine........but how many do actually check their gear often? I'd suggest less than most would like to think they do

 

[Stu Jackson]

The consensus seems to be: do it however you'd like to do it.

Not too bad...

 

[GMac]

A consensus in anchoring related thread. OK, so what's the catch?

Now just waiting for someone to come out and say "Smile, you're on Candid camera'

 

[john_morris_uk]

Yeah probably but then it is gear that you do have to rely on while you and your kids are asleep so I suppose it is one area on your boat you don't want to do halfa**ed.


More just a comment based on 3 reasons -
- With most thimbles coming out of the east (just as all of those style SS hooks are) so are pretty lightweight and if the wear through or bend in the middle they suddenly become a knife.... bye bye rope. Not saying all or even most will but we have seen it happen, almost exclusively with galv thimbles and galv shackles, so why not just eliminate that possibility all together by not using one in the 1st place.
- Thimbles and by the use of also meaning shackles, are just another thing to rattle, scratch paint, come undone at the wrong moment sort of things so as mentioned again not using them eliminates those possible issues.
- We have been splicing directly to the hook for well over a decade. That time has shown there are no strength lose or chafe issues. Note I am talking the mass produced SS hooks photoed earlier, with some other hooks there could be issues. Also that incudes using a good rope and splice obviously.

You can shackle and thimble if you like, we would seriously recommend using SS gear only though, but we just don't see that as being better, as noted above we think it's worse to a small degree, than splicing directly on. If you check your gear often all will be perfectly fine........but how many do actually check their gear often? I'd suggest less than most would like to think they do

Fair comment - I have not had any experience of thimbles chafing through in the way you describe so was interested to hear your experiences. The thimbles I use are hot-dip-galvanized and very heavy, so I just can't see them wearing through - not without me noticing anyway. I use them on my mooring strops onto the buoy and I have inherited what appears to be a similar one with my chain hook.

I get to see a fair amount of gear on many and various boats through my work with the RYA and I will keep an eye out for the phenomena your describe.

I will also check the hook that I have - I think its s/s, but make unknown. I don't worry too much about failure as I always leave the chain made off as well and therefore if the hook and gear failed the boat would remain anchored.

Regards checking gear - isn't it what we all do all the time. Its the seaman like precaution of keeping a watchful eye on all the lines, gear, shackles, rigging etc etc? I always liken it to a farmer watching his stock - its so you notice when something changes, and you can investigate because there's ALWAYS a reason.

 

[GMac]

Don't get me wrong, it's not common place for thimbles to do that on snubbers but we have seen it more times than we have seen it happen to directly spliced on rope. So more just a case of 'better safe than sorry' really. All just part of our job I suppose, saving the less knowledgeable from themselves by tweaking where we can including the small often thought about bits and bobs, a strong programme we run here. Then again we specialise in anchoring/mooring systems and don't do much else so we probably get to see more issues and have more time to find fixes or improvements, than say a big box store marine outlet.

The heavier BS646 thimbles tend to be fine as they are a lot gruntier than the more common lighter ones. If anything we probably use more Nylon thimbles in applications like that now, they are tuff little buggers.

If you talk permanent moorings where the 646's are used a lot, we've seen more than a few failures but then they are working 24/7 and aren't easy for most to watch or even see a lot of the time.

Regards checking gear - isn't it what we all do all the time. Its the seaman like precaution of keeping a watchful eye on all the lines, gear, shackles, rigging etc etc? I always liken it to a farmer watching his stock - its so you notice when something changes, and you can investigate because there's ALWAYS a reason.

In theory yes but in practice??? Many do but equally many don't, often purely due to not knowing I think.