Atlantic circuit with a dodgy motor?

[dazautomatics]

Hi Guys

Sorry we haven’t posted for a long time, but we have been very distracted working all the hours we can to make money so we can go off sailing again.

We have a dilemma and would be interested in your advice please?

We are preparing for an Atlantic circuit next year (On a budget) and have just realised our aged marinized ford XLD (1.6d) motor need serious work or replacement as the piston rings are worn, lots of pressure in the top of the motor and grey smoke which smells of burnt oil.

Our boat is a 1974 Dufour 35 that we have so far sailed to Greece and back in. We have spent a lot of time and a small fortune replacing most of the equipment on board, so we have a safe reliable offshore cruiser.

Before we go next year we also need to purchase new sails, radar, sat phone, re-enforcements to the rig and various other highly expensive stuff! Probably around £10,000

So we are unsure what to do about the motor

Here are our options

1. Do nothing, use oil additives and try keep the motor running, wait until we return (if it lasts!) and replace it when we have jobs again.

2. Remove the motor, take it to a diesel specialist, we have been recommended and get it reconditioned (If parts are available) and refit our engine. Estimated cost £1,000 +

3. Obtain a 2000 Ford 1.8 XLD engine in a good condition, replace the diesel pump with a 1993 unit (Non ECU) swap the marinising kit from the original motor, purchase a few bit from Lancing marine, have the diesel pump and injectors reconditioned, replace as much on the outside of the motor as possible and refit. Estimated cost £1,500 (But have been told these engines are not as reliable as the 1.6)

4. Purchase a new 30 -35hp marine engine costing between £3,500 and £6,000. Live on rice and fish for a year!

The decision to replace is more difficult as our motor has never let us down and has a very unusual arrangement for the mounts which will involve many hours to cut out and reconstruct new engine beds. It will also be very difficult to remove the motor from the boat as we have a fixed GRP spray hood which is bonded to the deck.

Again any advice will be very much appreciated

Darren & Vicki

 

[multihullsailor6]

Hi Darren and Vicki!

I do not like your options 1 and 4 (don't like rice!).

For your plans you NEED a (running and ideally) reliable engine to get you moving when needed ( and maybe also to top up your batteries when at anchor). I was 25M off the Portugese west coast sailing along in a F2 at 2.5kts when I received a F8-9 storm warning, due to hit my area in 6 hours - I made it to port under engine 3 hours before the winds arrived with later on 9m high waves off the coast!

I would go for your option 2 - least hassles overall!

 

[vyv_cox]

I suggest that your best option is to have it reconditioned by an automotive specialist. This is a very common engine and costs will be competitive. The worst thing you can do is have anybody connected with marine/yachting to do it, as many don't have the skills and you will pay through the nose. The least it needs is a rebore and new pistons, although checking shaft wear and having new bearings is almost certainly worthwhile.

Removing it is unlikely to be as difficult as you suggest. It is not necessary to take everything out in one piece, you will almost certainly be able to rig a timber beam across the companionway, lift the engine and gearbox and slide/roll it into the saloon. When I did my Bukh 20 I used a skateboard to roll it down a plank. Then split the engine and gearbox, remove ancillaries and it will be handleable by two people. Lift it out of the boat on the boom supported by a couple of halyards.

 

[charles_reed]

Well the Purdeys swear by having no engine - but then they spend most of their time static.

If the engine runs and drives the boat, just keep it for an emergency and do all else under sail. You'll have to be more weatherwise and getting the main up without a motor proves a problem to many.

As a real emergency back-up, have a long-shaft outboard on a outboard bracket. The replacement, in any form, appears to be a frightening challenge (especially with no money to throw at it),

 

[Conachair]

I've done it with a dodgy engine, Suriname to Tobago then Trini no engine at all. Doable but really not much fun. And if you loose confidence in the motor then quite a few places will become out of bounds, no trips up the river into the jungle etc.
Option 2 sounds the best if you can't afford a new one. But take a load of spares with you, it's deeply depressing wandering around the various customs offices every day for a few weeks waiting for spares while everyone else heads off to paradise for a beach barbicue

Charles has a good point about being able to move the boat with an outboard, even if only at 1kn. Took me a week to leave a bay once.

 

[Downsman]

If you sail with the engine in the condition it is now, obviously a further 12 months wear and tear must be added. If you break down abroad obtaining spares will be like walking into Halfords and asking for a headlamp for a Ford Anglia..slim chance. After 12 months you'll be coming home, maybe in the Western Approaches in failing visibility close to the busy shipping lanes and a reliable engine will be a welcome asset. Personally I would go with Vyv's advice, haul it out and find a good non marine diesel engineer to overhaul it completely. I write with some experience having broken down in Sardinia, sailed back to Spain minus the engine and then attempted repairs to a 36 year old Ford WaterMota. Ha! eesa what engine senor?? Lots of shrugging and Alice in Wonderland repair estimates..Sort your engine before you sail..

 

[Conachair]

Live on rice and fish for a year!

You say that like it's a bad thing

 

[dazautomatics]

Hi guys

Actually we both would happily live on rice and fish! As for the motor, we could afford a new engine, just would have no funds when we return to the UK and are reluctant to leave ourselves in that position. (that is if we do return)

The reconditioning of the engine sounds like the easiest and most cost effective option but I am very nervous of reconditioning the motor, as it is not always possible to know what has been done to the insides until it blows up at the most inoportune moment. Does anyone have experience of this being successful? We have been recommended a good (non marine) engineering company by a friend so this is possible.

Over the years we have been at sea without a motor and I have to admit this is a very unpleasant experience, especially trying to leave an anchorage while dragging onto a rocky lee shore!

 

[silver-fox]

We have a 20 year old 1.8 XLD unit. They are basic, they are relatively easy to maintain and reliable. Spares are cheap and relatively easy to source (Spain, Tunisia and UKso far)

I intend to keep mine until its a little rust spot in the bilges

I have been told by friends in the van business that a factory exchange unit (short engine) can be bought for around £400.

Given that most engines die of boredom and corrosion rather than wearing out....... I would go for the reconditioned unit every time - but then I an not that keen on a diet of rice and fish................

 

[Sandyman]

Option 2. You need a reliable donk cos without it you will forever have in your mind 'what if it dont start' !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! when I desperately need it.

 

[Downsman]

One benefit of taking the old engine out and stripping it down is that you can then make the decision, is it worth spending money on perhaps a rebore, new rings/pistons, main bearings etc? I decided it wasn't, having had the opportunity to see for myself I went for engine replacement. I managed to do a deal with the engineers to supply the new engine if a complete overhaul was decided against, so they made a minimal charge for taking the old one out. I stripped it down myself once it was out and made my own decision about replacement and they kept to the deal, and charged very little for the lift out (Craned into a work boat as I was afloat.)..
P.S This was back in Uk with an English company, not in Spain..

Sailing without an engine is very romantic and olde worlde until you're South of Ibizia without a breath of wind and the nutter in one of those Balearic Island ferries decides you're in his way.....

 

[tarik]

Lancing Marine - Excellent response.

Hi,


I too have a Ford diesel engine, and recently had occasion to email Lancing Marine for some advice. The next morning (Saturday) I had two emails from none other than Mike Bellamy - the M/D, most informative, and blow me a couple of days later and unexpectedly a couple of informative Lancing catalogues dropped through the letterbox.

Suggest you give them a call I'm sure they could assist.


Good luck,


David.


( No connection with Lancing, other than potential customer.)

 

[mike_bryon]

“Before we go next year we also need to purchase new sails, radar, sat phone, re-enforcements to the rig and various other highly expensive stuff! Probably around £10,000”

In my opinion you could easily save the cost of the engine rebuild from your refit budget. For example many boats do an Atlantic circuit without radar and sat phone. Why not source second hand sails (as reserves) and have your existing sails patched up. Once here (the Caribbean) you can get a lot of sail repair done for a few hundred pounds. I would leave with a reliable engine rather than with new sails, radar and sat phone.

 

[OldBawley]

In 1999 before going on cruise I reconditioned our Perkins 4108m myself. I had a professional marine diesel mechanic giving advise when I needed it and was schooled as a mechanic.
A reconditioned engine is as good or better than a new one.
After years of cruising and having the ambition to do all manoeuvres under sail ( If I can´t be the fastest, then the most skilful ) I learned that one thing is sure, there is always a moment where only a trusty engine helps.
And if out there a repair is necessary, a older type of engine has its benefits.

 

[DownWest]

I have a little experience with the 1.8XLD, but in a pick-up. It had 150k with some rough drivers, I bought it and did 50k more before a piston quit. Rebored it and fitted new bearings. Bit later the crank ran a bearing. Had it reground and carried on (should have fitted a new oil pump, but...) At 300K the crank bust (result of the bearing prob)
At that point, I decided to give it a miss and bought a used unit from the local dismantler. € 700 exchange. They are very common in Escorts and other Fords. 3 month guarantee.
Happy ever since.
If you can find a good used one and swap all the bits, it will last for years in a boat.
I did all my own rebuilds, if done by a third party the cost would have scrapped the truck.
DW

Plus, in a boat, you are using it at much lower RPM

 

[TQA]

Before you do ANYTHING check that the crankcase breather is not choked and that any PCV valve [ if fitted ] is functioning. Either of those if blocked or faulty can give the symptoms you describe.

Otherwise I would rebuild your existing motor either with an exchange short block or a rebore/regrind on your own.

 

[dazautomatics]

“Before we go next year we also need to purchase new sails, radar, sat phone, re-enforcements to the rig and various other highly expensive stuff! Probably around £10,000”

In my opinion you could easily save the cost of the engine rebuild from your refit budget. For example many boats do an Atlantic circuit without radar and sat phone. Why not source second hand sails (as reserves) and have your existing sails patched up. Once here (the Caribbean) you can get a lot of sail repair done for a few hundred pounds. I would leave with a reliable engine rather than with new sails, radar and sat phone.

Hi Mike

Our experiences so far sailing to Greece and taught us that good sails are essential on a boat doing long distances. We found that we wasted a lot of diesel in the Med when we could have sailed. Our sails were refurbished professionally before we left the UK, but because they were old and the head sails were not ideal, the motor was used to compensate. We are looking to invest in a large Genoa and a cruising chute so when we have light winds we can keep moving without the iron sail!

Radar we also feel will be an essential piece of kit for long distance and have had a few very close calls over the years in reduced visibility. Also it would be reassuring if we are being shadowed by a coaster (quite common) that we have the ability to keep an eye on them we think is essential.

Also Sat - phones are again an important link with the weather and god forbid you get caught in a nasty (as you know, worried family will be watching the weather) it's good just to be able to send a quick text reassuring them that you are ok. Also if you have medical emergency, you can talk with a professional.

Apart from these, we have a very basic boat. We don’t have pressurised or hot water, plotter and a manual windlass. But we do have an incredibly strong seaworthy boat, wind vain steering, an autopilot and a good car radio with deck speakers (To turn up in bad weather!) and good lifejackets.

Darren & Vicki

 

[mike_bryon]

Hi Darren and Vicki,
I’m sure you will have a fantastic time and I do agree about the importance of a good sound system and a large Genoa. But I personally would treat engine failure as a show stopper whereas I am comfortable about doing an Atlantic circuit without radar and sat phone and I would swop my cruising chute for an engine rebuild without hesitation.
Best wishes
Mike

 

[Csail]

Save a few more pennies and get option 2 or a new engine.Option 2 sounds best as everything will fit back as it was without teething problems/alignment etc.

 

[dazautomatics]

Hi Guys

Thank you very much for your ideas and suggestions, we will check out TQA’s recommendation on faulty / blocked crank vents as the motor is still starting fine.

I called into Hartlepool yesterday to see our mate Ray and got the details of the company down in Teesside that he recommended for diesel engines. So I will be asking him on price and availability of parts to recondition our 1987 motor.

We will try and post again with an outcome on motor probably in the New Year when all the action will start. We are planning to cast off the lines in May, Norway first then a slow run down to the Canneries via the West coast of Ireland.

Thanks again

Darren & Vicki