Around the UK

[Andy_Wild]

After a couple of years sailing with friends and time spent on my GP14 I have decided to embark on my first proper trip.

I am looking to buy a small 22-26 foot yacht (I was thinking of a Pandora fin keel or something on those lines) in Febuary/March. Sail and prep her through April - June and then take on leisurely cruise from mid Wales up over Scotland and then down through to Hull some time in July/August. I'm hoping to be away for 6 to 8 weeks.

As a result I am looking for information from anyone else who has taken on such a journey. Advice on where to go and what to see, what to keep away from and any pilots or charts that would be needed would be fantastic.

If anyone also has any advice on a boat I would be also be greatful. I mainly aim to do coast sailing. I have a budget of approx £2500 to £3500 for a boat - a shoestring I'm affriad, but its now or never!

Many thanks

Andy

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[AndrewB]

The Pandora is at the bottom end of your size range, but on a budget of £3,500 probably 23' LOA is about the limit bearing in mind you will need funds for mooring, insurance, plus inevitably replacement and/or modernisation of gear for an older yacht bought second-hand.

What you describe is quite ambitious for a first cruise though by no means impossible. A Pandora is a bit of a racer and not really an open-sea cruising boat though I'm sure it would cope. Obviously you have the sailing skills but there is a fair bit extra involved in navigation and in coping in open seas in tides and stronger winds, that you don't learn from dinghies. (Are you immune from sea-sickness?) I'm tempted to suggest that you enrol for an RYA Day Skipper (practical) course now, and find someone more experienced to go with you, at least at first.

An alternative yacht I'd recommend is the <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.kyoa.org.uk/homepage.htm>Kingfisher 20</A>: same length (22'), right price, slower but arguably more suited to such a cruise.

 

[Althorne]

A round Britain trip was serialised in some of this years PBO by 3 chaps on seperate boats if memory serves me well, maybe you could glean info' from those articles and make contact with them. We are to do a shorter motor trip ourselves hopefully in June/July from River Crouch to Glasgow and back. Hope all works out.

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[dickh]

How about a Halcyon 23 - fin keel, should just about be within your budget. Quite capable of this sort of trip with care, if a little wet. I sailed all over the Thames Estuary and across to Belgium & France in mine in all sorts of weather. To get a 26' would only be possible witha 'project' boat that needed a lot of TLC.
Good luck anyway

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[snowleopard]

a good book to start with is 'one summer's grace' by libby purves.

i have been round 3 times in the last 4 years but always through the caledonian. i would recommend the canal unless you have an urge to do the 'whole thing'.



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[Kurrawong_Kid]

If you can find one in good condition, consider a Robert Tucker 21ft. Debutante. They dont like going to windward one little bit, but they are very seaworthy. Tristan Jones sailed one, the Sea Dart, (see his the "Improbable Voyage"), for thousands of miles off South America. Probably pick one up for about £1500. Funny looking little yacht though! I had one for 3 seasons and sailed her all round the South West, albeit a bit slowly. At a pinch they can be trailed.

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[Violetta]

If a Debutante

I think there is one for sale in my neck of the woods. I have no idea of the condition, but can find out info if necessary. It has been sailed regularly in recent years, so not a derelict.

Last time I sailed in one was around 45 years ago - but I seem to remember that the accommodation is much roomier than in the average 21 footer.


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[Haddock]

By the questions you are asking, I would strongly recommend that you

- attend an RYA course;

then, for your first coastal voyages go along as crew member with an experienced skipper.














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[Stemar]

A certain well known young lady did it in a Corribee. She now sails something a bit bigger, but still does it on her own a lot of the time...

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[Andy_Wild]

Thanks Haddock

I've had my Coastal skipper for 3 years and I've sailed around Ireland and Wales quite a bit and crewed in the med.

But I agree - preperation is eveything

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[jeanne]

This project crops up every two or three weeks, proposed by people who think it sounds, easy, manageable, no need to sail with a bad forecast, etc.
In terms of distance it is the same as U.K. to Casablanca and back. or St. Petersburg and back.
If you are planning on '6 to 8 weeks' that is 50 miles a day, sailing every day, regardless of forecasts. If you spend a day in harbour now and then, Make that 70 miles a day.

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[bedouin]

To be honest I don't think you could do a "leisurely" trip round UK in 6-8 weeks - it is an interesting exercise to try planning the cruise in terms of a possible set of destinations. When I tried that exercise a couple of years back I came to the conclusion that 3 months would feel a bit rushed.


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[Andy_Wild]

Interesting that you say that bedouin. I'm trying to break the trip up around the coast by meeting friends to go climbing or walking in Wales and Scotland (do 'Dream of White Horses' again on Angelsey - classic scary climb!!) and spend some time sea kayaking round the Hebridees with planned stops at Fort william for at least a week, the more I look the more I get excited!! Maybe 3 months is the way forward. Perhaps a quick visit to Ireland too..?

Some people have also suggested an RYA course but I forgot to mention that I am Day Skipper quailifed (3 years ago) so I do have a bit of experience, but the whole solo thing would be very new to me. I plan to do a few circumnavigations of Angelsey with friends abaord and then try and solo circumnavigate Angelsey to see how I fair.

Cheers for the advice.
Andy

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[Haddock]

OK - it is a good start that you have some knowledge of theory. But the theory is very much a ground base on which to build years of experience. Day Skipper,from distant memory is very basic. I am not trying to put you down, every one must start somewhere. Trips around Anglesea would be a good start, perhaps a few crossings to Ireland.

I don't want to preach but I am coming from years of commercial seagoing experience, coastal and deep sea. Making a safe passage far more involved than most people realise.

Perhaps Day Skipper is too basic a course to have discussed the way to go about passage planning for the kind of trip you plan.

But since you ask, for charts you can refer to Admiralty chart catalogue, now online. But you will also need tide tables, lights list, pilot, radio signals to name just a few essentials.

You must remember that weather conditions or gear breakage could force you to sail at night, or even in fog which can set in very quickly there and you would need to be confident and skilled in the use of radar and navigation in general.


There are also cruising guides which are usually very helpful. But I have not sailed in that area for many years so don't know the current cruising guides. I began my seagoing career in the Irish sea. It is a very good training ground. But it is full of hazards for the inexperienced.

I would still recommend taking a more experienced person along. and don't expect to cover as much distance as you plan, you may do it, but all sorts of things like weather etc etc etc....can hold you up.




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[AndrewB]

Think you are a bit pessimistic. If Andy goes through the Crinan canal, then 8 weeks right round would not be unreasonable. Way back in 1869, E.E.Middleton did it solo all the way around via the Crinan in 3 months in a 23' LOA yacht, entirely in day hops stopping overnight in harbour, and that without an engine. He rowed quite a bit of the way. With an engine, and given a bit of luck with the weather, 8 weeks should be manageable.

Incidentally Middleton had no previous sailing experience, other than a couple of days of lessons on a hire boat in Southampton immediately prior to setting out. I think this cruise should certainly be within the capabilities of a confident Day Skipper, provided it does not include the west of Ireland or the north of Scotland.

 

[webcraft]

Did round Ireland this Summer in a reasonably well-found 27-footer, loads of previous experience . . . we had a couple of minor breakdowns which took up 4 days, were galebound for one day and strong-headwind-bound for a further two, did one overnight passage and quite a few long (12 - 15 hours) days. Sailed in a lot of strong winds (F5 - 6) and headwinds.

We took six weeks less two days, and wished we had been able to take longer - we rushed some of the best bits because we felt a long way from home and pressed for time. Total distance 1100 miles.

If I was sailing round the UK in a 23 footer (which must be at least 1800 miles) I would want to have at least three months to enjoy the experience. I wouldn't go through the canal either - the NW is one of the best bits, and should not be rushed or bypassed.

- Nick

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[Romeo]

I might have read it wrong but I think the 6-8 weeks was for voyaging from Mid wales to Hull round the top, ie not all the way round, but covering all the interesting bits.

My own recommendation if sailing in a small boat would be to avoid a fin keel. You have many more options of small places to stop if you are able to take the ground easily. This is especially useful if you are sailing single handed: if there is a beach you could run up onto in order to avoid a 20 mile slog to windward before nightfall you want at least to have that option. It is less of an issue on the west coast where shelter can usually be found without drying out but coming down the east coast from Wick or Inverness floating ports are quite far apart and usually not as interesting as the drying harbours.

My own experience of such a journey was taking 6 weeks to travel from the Firth of Forth to the Caley canal and down to Sound of Mull etc before returning the same route. So glad I did it and got so much out of it. Do this sort of thing while you have the time. Go for it.

My boat was smaller than a Pandora and didn't have an engine so time comparison is probably not much use to you. You don't want to be rushing it, but get the right boat and if you run out of time you can either sell her where you get to or arrange to bring her back by road. In small boats the biggest safety precaution you can take is never to be in a position that you feel you must leave to stick to a schedule when the weather conditions (or crew conditions!) might make it more sensible to stay put.

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[Romeo]

can you leave a bit earlier, by the way? You will get significantly more daylight in June that you will towards the end of August.

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[beachbum]

I can endorse snowleopard's recommendation:

"One Summer's Grace: A Family Voyage Round Britain" by Libby Purves

- a good read as well as being useful.

Amazon have it in stock.

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[Violetta]

More on Debutante

I happened to run into the owner of the one I knew was for sale today. Its still for sale at £1500. He tells me it is in good condition and epoxied below waterline but the sails are "a bit tired". I've never been aboard the boat and know the owner only casually so can't say more. Don't know if its a private sale or through a broker but if you want any more info PM me and I will find out.

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