Are snuffers the work of the devil?

[Seajet]

But there's a HUGE difference between a traditional spinnaker and a 'chute.

I am used to trad kites on racing dinghies, where if one gets it wrong the news comes very quickly; however modern International 14's with their asymmetrics were a revelation, so incredibly user friendly.

Even on my Anderson 22 the trad kite is 290 square feet and solo or with SWMBO unless it's set in light airs for days it stays in the bag; the tri-radial chute is wonderful to use, and in light winds gives a boost up to a close reach.

 

[duncan99210]

K

Paul / Duncan

Both your replies imply you hoist the chute from a bag into the empty sock ( which has already been hoisted ). Correct?

I would have thought you could stow the whole "chute in the sock" as a manageable sausage and hoist it as one before pulling the uphaul and flying the chute. Wrong?

No, the chute lives inside the snuffer. You hoist the sail inside the snuffer, sort of like a sausage, then once the sheets and clew are tied off you pull the snuffer up to release the sail. Snuffing is the reverse, pulling the snuffer down over the sail. You then lower the stuffed sausage either straight into the bag or through the forward hatch for proper stowage later.

 

[Seajet]

When I bought my Carter 30 which had been raced a lot on the East Coast, we were surprised to find a bucket with the bottom cut out and a large bag of elastic bands.

We worked out this was for the old racing trick of passing the spinnaker through the bucket and applying elastic bands to make the sail into a sausage.

I'm sure hoisting the thing then tugging on sheet & guy to dramatically deploy it was an impressive pose ( maybe not so impressive to enviromentalists wondering about crabs etc munching on elastic bands ) .

However I'd be really impressed if someone came up with a similar method to snap the thing back in just when things are going pear-shaped and a pic by Rick Tomlinson/ Beken / Youtube is on the cards !

 

[dom]

However I'd be really impressed if someone came up with a similar method to snap the thing back in just when things are going pear-shaped and a pic by Rick Tomlinson/ Beken / Youtube is on the cards !

Put me on the waiting list please, pretty much whatever the cost - mrs d has recently considered citing spinnaker cock-ups as a possible reason for divorce :hopeless:

 

[Seajet]

dom,

it's going to be a bloody long list - have you seen Beken's photo library of spinnaker bothers going back to early 20th century ?!

For SWMBO and your marriage's sake, unless racing in a class boat get a tri-radial chute !

 

[geem]

Our spinnaker is 1700 ft2. Hoisting that without a snuffer would be difficult. Dropping it even more so. We find a well designed snuffer invaluable. We sail as husband and wife and we cope pretty will with ours and we use it regularly. The record for us flying it is 35hours none stop.

 

[dom]

For SWMBO and your marriage's sake, unless racing in a class boat get a tri-radial chute !

To be honest, that's exactly what I've done! A full kite, which when two up is for us really only deployable in a F3 or less, inevitably leaves us sweating that the wind might suddenly rise. The asymmetric/snuffer combination makes dropping so much easier, especially with a big sail that leaves one swimming in sailcloth as it comes down! Gybing is far simpler too. I think 90% of the trouble with snuffers comes either from people trying to take big sails down sitting on the bow with the tack still wound in tight, or from failing to ensure the snuffer line is correctly rigged.

 

[Woodlouse]

I think snuffers have had their day. They do work very well when properly set up and used but the new trend on big boats to put kites on top down furling systems is far superior and will filter down to small boats quickly.

Of course, if you want to be really flash you could also just install a take down system.

 

[Daydream believer]

I have a snuffer which now lives in the garage
I sail single handed with a 64 M2 cruising chute.
Do not need it for the hoist If i get moving with it
Dropping with a snuffer single handed is far too dangerous
I lower from the cockpit controlling the halyard on my cabin winch & I drop the chute under the boom & straight into the cabin via the hatch, Only going forward to take the halyard back to the bow.

When hoisting the foot gets caught in the GRP mouthpiece ( Hyde snuffer) & I have to catch it & pull a lump out. get hit on the head with the B..y thing then if I am not carefull it hits the steaming light which is now broken or it rotates round the forestay
When lowering a snuffer I have to go forward to catch the down line which will be the wrong side of the sail. Once snuffed after lots of tugging to get it down ( often had to lower it with snuffer stuck at the head)& dangerous balancing on the deck one has to lower & catch the sock - Halyard is controlled aft so I would have to try & lead 1 end forward

It is so easy to hoist & lower without. I was bought up racing & was foredeck skipper on a large yacht for a while & also spinnaker handler on a half toner so i suppose I know the best way to do it & these snuffers are just dangerous gadgets to me.

 

[geem]

I have a snuffer which now lives in the garage
I sail single handed with a 64 M2 cruising chute.
Do not need it for the hoist If i get moving with it
Dropping with a snuffer single handed is far too dangerous
I lower from the cockpit controlling the halyard on my cabin winch & I drop the chute under the boom & straight into the cabin via the hatch, Only going forward to take the halyard back to the bow.

When hoisting the foot gets caught in the GRP mouthpiece ( Hyde snuffer) & I have to catch it & pull a lump out. get hit on the head with the B..y thing then if I am not carefull it hits the steaming light which is now broken or it rotates round the forestay
When lowering a snuffer I have to go forward to catch the down line which will be the wrong side of the sail. Once snuffed after lots of tugging to get it down ( often had to lower it with snuffer stuck at the head)& dangerous balancing on the deck one has to lower & catch the sock - Halyard is controlled aft so I would have to try & lead 1 end forward

It is so easy to hoist & lower without. I was bought up racing & was foredeck skipper on a large yacht for a while & also spinnaker handler on a half toner so i suppose I know the best way to do it & these snuffers are just dangerous gadgets to me.

Get a better snuffer. I have used carp ones and yours sounds like a carp one. The last two I have had were made by Kemp. A big improvement on my previous ones. We wouldn't be without it

 

[Daydream believer]

Get a better snuffer. I have used carp ones and yours sounds like a carp one. The last two I have had were made by Kemp. A big improvement on my previous ones. We wouldn't be without it

But you still have to go on deck to use it

 

[Martin&Rene]

We sail 2 up on a Hanse 341 and I am happy with using a snuffer. 3 little things I have done to make life easier are;

1. I have 2 snap links mounted on the end of my self tacking track system and I clip the snuffer rope through one of these, but a snaplink anywhere on the foredeck will do.. So when I hoist or lower the snuffer sock I pull the rope up from this point rather than pulling the rope which is coming direct from the head or the foot of the sock. It feels so much safer that way, with no fear of going up in the air, or getting dizzy looking upwards all the time.
2. Get a decent stowage or deck bag which has pieces of rope that you can clip on to the tack, clew and head as you lower the chute in its snuffer, so that it is immediately ready to hoist next time.
3. I have cam cleats located low down on the sides of the mast so that once the helm has released the halyard from its clutch at the cockpit, I can sit on the deck and use one of these cleats to control how the spinnaker sock is lowered so that I can carefully flake out the sock in its bag so that it ready for launching. We have no messing about repacking the spinnaker below decks, This is especially useful if the chute is wet, for after all, we sail a cruising yacht, not a racing yacht..

I found it strange initially releasing the tack rope just prior to snuffing the chute, but after a bit you get used to iy.

 

[dylanwinter]

last summer I borrowed a spinnaker and a snuffer

tried the snuffer

hated it

left it in the shed and flew the spinnaker naked - as god intended

 

[geem]

But you still have to go on deck to use it

I am not sure what the issue is going on deck. Our deck is flat. Nice big area to drop a spinnaker onto. Autopilot will steer the boat in any conditions so don't need to be in cockpit. Spinnaker snuffs easily so drop tack line and walk forward, douse the spinnaker. Simples

 

[Daydream believer]

My deck rolls about a lot in a sea so is rarely "flat"

 

[mainsail1]

Had a lovely weekend in light winds and sunshine using the cruising chute single handed without the snuffer. The drop on day one was fine but I must say that the drop on the second day, when the wind had increased a little, was a mess and the sail went in the water. I need to work out a foolproof system for dropping the chute or, heaven forbid!, re rig the snuffer and try again as so many of you have said you have no problem with snuffers.

 

[flaming]

Quick answer yes, hate the damn things.

I've done a LOT of sailing with snuffers, on both cruising chutes and proper kites and in my opinion every advantage that a snuffer gives you can be replicated with good technique, plus they have a few inherent disadvantages.

Chief among the disadvantages when sailing shorthanded is that the act of snuffing and unsnuffing require you to be on the foredeck, away from the sheets and guys and away from the wheel. And if the breeze has got up and it's just your (reluctant sailor) other half on the boat you're going to struggle to communicate anything over the sound of all that flapping cloth.

The other key disadvantage is that they are of no use whatsoever in a broach etc. And if you're not used to dropping the thing normally you're really going to struggle if the only time you try is when you've been caught out by a rising wind and have just been laid flat by a 25knot gust.
Been there with a snuffer, done that, got the T-Shirt.

The thing with spinnakers is that there are a lot of different techniques available to suit the conditions. Dropping in light winds and a flat sea...? Fine, just lower it slowly and shove it into the bag as it comes down. Dropping when the wind has got up and you've only just realized...? Fine, just blow the tackline (or guy for a kite) and halyard and pull it under the boom and down the hatch. All done from the security of the companionway.

 

[DJE]

But you still have to go on deck to use it

That's why I quickly stopped using the snuffer on the last boat. I didn't see the point of sending somebody up to the foredeck when there was more than enough to do in the cockpit. And what do you do with the snuffer lines once the kite is set? I found I had to tie them to the guardrails or a mooring cleat and hope they didn't get in the way when gybing. And once or twice the sausage wrapped itself round the foresay between hoisting and raising the snuffer.

The new boat currently doesn't have any downwind sails but is a masthead rig and 14.6m from the deck to the spinaker halyard block. So handling a chute or spinaker with just the two of us will take some careful thought. Currently leaning towards a furling assymetric but plenty of time to think about it as I save up for the eye-watering price of one of those systems.

 

[geem]

That's why I quickly stopped using the snuffer on the last boat. I didn't see the point of sending somebody up to the foredeck when there was more than enough to do in the cockpit. And what do you do with the snuffer lines once the kite is set? I found I had to tie them to the guardrails or a mooring cleat and hope they didn't get in the way when gybing. And once or twice the sausage wrapped itself round the foresay between hoisting and raising the snuffer.

The new boat currently doesn't have any downwind sails but is a masthead rig and 14.6m from the deck to the spinaker halyard block. So handling a chute or spinaker with just the two of us will take some careful thought. Currently leaning towards a furling assymetric but plenty of time to think about it as I save up for the eye-watering price of one of those systems.

I guess its what you get used to. Our masthead rig is 17.5m to spinny block. Setting 1700ft2 of spinney on the pole is normal for us. We wouldn't be without the snuffer.

 

[WayneS]

While I mostly sailed 2-up, the 2nd party did the sunbathing and I did the sailing...

Without a snuffer I could not have flown our asymmetric. It was a godsend, as long as you understood the issues and made sure you rigged it properly. 6 years I never had a problem.

I saw one person use it to "reef" his asymmetric /spinny (cannot remember which) round the back of the IOW. While we were all too chicken to hoist ours, he blew by us with only the bottom half of his sail open. No sure if that was clever or not, but it worked.

Cheers

Wayne