Are people buying new boats at the moment?

[Steruth1]

The market is a strange place at present , second hand values are dropping, boats seem to be around for a long time with little movement, then you look at new prices and they seem to be spiralling!
Eg a 40ft sport cruiser new is 600k plus and just 12 months later they are on the market for 450k ish that’s a huge loss in 12 months… so my question is I guess, is the uk boat market broken due to the fact we have a limited stock due to Brexit and the vat issues associated, and is anyone buying new boats at present or sitting tight until things pick up?

 

[Portofino]

A lot might be awaiting Reeves October statement outlining her next moves on wealth levelling up . CGT , IHT , ISA , pensions contributions, Div tax and any other moves like a gen wealth tax on assets - eg 1% on your boat purchase price annually , a transaction tax on HNWI “toys “ boats planes and automobiles above a certain thresholds or any other politics of envy Starmer has etc etc .

Seems daft to drop a lot of dosh NOW until on a big ticket item until you understand what she’s gonna do with all of the above IMHO .

 

[DAW]

Some anecdotal observations from the European market ...

List prices quoted by major builders should be seen as highly indicative and not representative of what you will finally pay. Over the last few years, prices for new boats spiralled upwards because of a combination of stronger demand, rising material and labour costs and an attempt by builders to improve margins while times were good. As the market has slowed (dramatically in some size ranges) over the last 12-18 months, many builders now have plenty of manufacturing slots available for 24/25 deliveries and stock (i.e. unsold) boats sitting on their websites and are once again offering fairly aggressive discounts.

Values of used boats were dragged upwards by strong demand/shortage of supply/new boat pricing spiral. As the market has returned to normal (and perhaps lower than normal) levels of activity, there is an overhang of sellers, many with unrealistic expectations and some of whom paid the very high prices for new boats. I've heard from several brokers and seen real-world evidence that boats in good condition and fairly priced are still moving reasonably quickly ... two of my neighbours completed the sale of their 50-60ft boats within 6-8 weeks of listing and both achieved "fair" prices.

The impact of higher interest rates seems to have disproportionately affected the 40-70ft size range. Boats in this size range are more likely to be "aspirational" purchases made by people who are stretching their finances. This seems to be the segment where the biggest slowdown in new boat purchases has occurred and where the largest number of relatively recent purchases have come back to the market.

Agree with Porto, that many UK buyers could be waiting to see what happens in the first few months of the new Labour administration and are concerned about the possibility of major changes to the tax regime for those with significant assets/wealth.

 

[petem]

The market is a strange place at present , second hand values are dropping, boats seem to be around for a long time with little movement, then you look at new prices and they seem to be spiralling!
Eg a 40ft sport cruiser new is 600k plus and just 12 months later they are on the market for 450k ish that’s a huge loss in 12 months… so my question is I guess, is the uk boat market broken due to the fact we have a limited stock due to Brexit and the vat issues associated, and is anyone buying new boats at present or sitting tight until things pick up?

A new Targa 40 is the best part of £1m now. The days of them selling by the hundred (as the old T40 did) are well gone I would think!

That said, one day I'd like to trade up to a Targa 38 so the weakening of prices should reduce the price difference over our current boat.

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

About a month ago I got an e-mail from Princess UK s who seem to be giving some good deals on some unsold new stock.

Like one year free berth etc, for stock in UK and the Balearics.

 

[TonyR123]

New boat prices are/were still rising. So one that is 12 months old could well be the new price as it was 12 months ago. Boat I put deposit on, to secure the price, in July 2022, was around 20% more expensive less than a year later. Seakeeper had gone up over 10% in that time and teak over 200%!

 

[Moonstruck]

In my humble opinion, new boat prices are out of the reach of all but a select few people. As already mentioned a new 40’ boat can easily be over £1m . I purchased a new 40’ boat in 2005 and it cost just over my years salary. It goes without saying that boat prices have far outpaced pay. Of course there will always be people who can afford such costs but the vast majority cannot.
I own a boat in the Med and sales there seem quite buoyant compared to here, but that may just be my marina. Also it seems predominantly second hand boats that are moving. Brexit may well have a part in this as of course I’m guessing boats going to and from the Med from the U.K. must be in reduced numbers compared to pre Brexit?
I have thought for a long time that there is an opportunity for companies such as Setag to take used boats and upgrade them giving an older boat a new lease of life at prices at least some people can afford.
The marine world is certainly a crazy one!!

 

[ari]

In my humble opinion, new boat prices are out of the reach of all but a select few people. As already mentioned a new 40’ boat can easily be over £1m . I purchased a new 40’ boat in 2005 and it cost just over my years salary. It goes without saying that boat prices have far outpaced pay. Of course there will always be people who can afford such costs but the vast majority cannot.
I own a boat in the Med and sales there seem quite buoyant compared to here, but that may just be my marina. Also it seems predominantly second hand boats that are moving. Brexit may well have a part in this as of course I’m guessing boats going to and from the Med from the U.K. must be in reduced numbers compared to pre Brexit?
I have thought for a long time that there is an opportunity for companies such as Setag to take used boats and upgrade them giving an older boat a new lease of life at prices at least some people can afford.
The marine world is certainly a crazy one!!

That's always been the case though. Very few people have ever been able to afford (and justify) buying a brand new boat.

 

[Moonstruck]

That's always been the case though. Very few people have ever been able to afford (and justify) buying a brand new boat.

Yes I agree but I would suggest that now the very few have become the very very few….

 

[roa312]

I agree that the inflation in boat prices has historically exceeded both the CPI and general wage growth. For instance, my grandfather purchased a new Jupiter 40 in 1975 for DKK 305k (fully equipped, ex.VAT). Additionally, I found an old price quote from 1992 for a Storebro Biscay 42 at DKK 3,200k (also fully equipped, ex.VAT). Both of these boats were generally thought to be some of the highest quality available at the time (in the Nordics I should say before the Med guys show up! ). Out of curiosity, I plotted these prices with the DKK CPI over time.

Of course, this comparison is far from scientific—boats have over time become more voluminous with larger engines and more equipment. Production productivity has hopefully also increased—but it was just to see what the same prices would look like today. DKK 1,000k is roughly GBP 115k or EUR 134k.

Pictures of the two boat models:

 

[roa312]

[Deleted]

 

[Parabolica]

About a month ago I got an e-mail from Princess UK s who seem to be giving some good deals on some unsold new stock.

Like one year free berth etc, for stock in UK and the Balearics.

They have just parked a brand new V55 in our marina on Mallorca. I’m sure they are very motivated to do a deal on that now as not only will the dealer be paying to stock it having not found a buyer in however long they’ve had the slot, they will now be paying €4.5k/m to park it up too !

 

[SC35]

The first purchaser of my boat paid around £190k in 2010.
Prices now for a smaller Sealine S335 are all over the place ... £420k new or £250k for almost new

 

[petem]

In the late 90's I was earning around £70k a year as an IT contractor and bought a brand new Fairline Targa 30 for £90k.

Today, I imagine that an IT contractor would be earning perhaps £125k a year but a Fairline F-Line 33 is around £600k.

 

[Steruth1]

The first purchaser of my boat paid around £190k in 2010.
Prices now for a smaller Sealine S335 are all over the place ... £420k new or £250k for almost new

Exactly this . I know you will drop a bit of money as soon as you sail it out of the showroom but nearly 30-40% in a year is ridiculous

 

[Seastoke]

In the late 90's I was earning around £70k a year as an IT contractor and bought a brand new Fairline Targa 30 for £90k.

Today, I imagine that an IT contractor would be earning perhaps £125k a year but a Fairline F-Line 33 is around £600k.

Pete there is a F line coming for sale in Torquay, have a go at how much.

 

[SC35]

an IT contractor would be earning perhaps £125k

This is possible.

a Fairline F-Line 33 is around £600k.

This is not possible , hence the SC35 being "peak boat" for me.

 

[trapper guy]

imho, boat prices may be rising, but that doesnt mean they are selling.
all it represents are the hopes and aspirations of brokers.
6 months time ill practically guarantee it'll be a different story.

also to consider, price of goods rising? or the value of the pound dropping??
everytime gov 'borrows', it 'borrows' from the pound in your pocket, thereby reducing its market value even if its face value remains unchanged
£300 used to be able to buy a terraced house, now you are looking at £300k for the same thing.
its the same house, with the same number of rooms.

it isnt the value of the property that is increasing, but the amount of BOE tokens required to purchase, because they are weaker.
wont be long until were using monopoly money, especially after all the 'borrowing' gov did during covid.

 

[petem]

Pete there is a F line coming for sale in Torquay, have a go at how much.

Probably something daft like £700k!

 

[Parabolica]

Probably something daft like £700k!

Or a hell of a lot less depending upon how “motivated” the seller is !