Are modern boats up to it?

[snowleopard]

Once aboard the owners prefer to spend time on board in harbour.

I read a newspaper article some years back by a youngish male reporter who chartered a sailing boat in an up-market marina on the Cote d'Azur. He wasn't a sailor and used it as a holiday cottage. His plans came unstuck though when he invited various girls he had chatted up to come on board 'my yacht'. When they saw it wasn't a Sunseeker they didn't want to know.

 

[bluedragon]

Are old boats up to it...??

On our pontoon - S&S34 never goes out. Co32 pops out for an hour or two then back. The Bavs, Benes and Jeanneaus out much more and often for days. Many of the old boats at our last YC NEVER moved!! Nobody in our marina just sits on board with G&Ts and then goes home. So, the OP's original postulation is flawed IMO.

We moved from an old classic to a modern AWB. Why? As soon as the boat became our summer holiday home, our priorities completely changed. Any difference at sea...not really, except like all modern flat-bottomed hulls there is a tendency to slam into head seas. Answer to this - don't go to windward - at least not under engine We cruise for fun, not to wear hair shirts.

 

[trapezeartist]

I have a Victoria 26, which is built something like this:

You mean it's small, cramped, dark, scruffy and smelly?

 

[Nostrodamus]

On our pontoon - S&S34 never goes out. Co32 pops out for an hour or two then back. The Bavs, Benes and Jeanneaus out much more and often for days. Many of the old boats at our last YC NEVER moved!! Nobody in our marina just sits on board with G&Ts and then goes home. So, the OP's original postulation is flawed IMO.

If you read it you will find that I mentioned nothing about what age the boats that go out are. Having said that this post should be about the design of boats being compromised inorder to sell more.

For instance last summer I sailed a nearly new Hallberg Rassy 342 across to France and back. There was no autopilot.
I had previously sailed the Hallberg 34 a lot, enjoyed sailing them and liked the design. In the sales literature they go on about finding more space for the same Hull length and I agree they have.
The problem I found was that the wheel had been put so far back in the cockpit you were pretty much pinned in. Only enough room for a pair of size 10’s and no room to bend the knees. After 20 minutes my legs were so stiff we had to swop the helm. Each one of us found it the same and found ourselves standing side on to the wheel.
This is just a for instance and just something I came across. Others may find it different but all four of us on that trip had real problems and it probably would only be discovered if you sailed the boat for some time, not from a boat show.

 

[Vern]

Guilty as charged, I really like sitting in and on, my little Kestrel 22 from the 1970's in GRP, as it barely bobs in a reasonably sited marina in Weymouth.

It was bought via ebay, I know very very little about sailing, yet the yearning to go out has meant it has, twice in the 2 months of ownership.
I have made some friends with speedboats and yachts who are now neighbours as well as some jolly chats with very large boats without sails, which have come and gone.

I have slept on it for 15 nights now, it is cramped but then it's small and I'm tall.

A member on here and I will be trying my tug out properly, which is something I really look forward to. However, the boat remains foremost a pleasurable place to get some fresh air and relaxation, for the family and I.
It must remain that ideal or it becomes a too expensive hobby for me at this time.

I have nothing but admiration for those who 'pop over to here and there', in whatever they choose to do it in, and one day perhaps, I will do it.

This world of boats is almost completely new to me, but looking back I now realise how many times I have wandered around harbours, and looked at sailboats off the coast......and I really like the pictures of boats on here, doing their thing, it's like porn for the Soul.

 

[Nostrodamus]

Vern,
you put it so well.
Welcome to the sea of dreams

 

[bluedragon]

If you read it you will find that I mentioned nothing about what age the boats that go out are. Having said that this post should be about the design of boats being compromised inorder to sell more.

I clearly misunderstood your original post! Actually I agree with you. The new boats of 10 years ago still had things such as chart tables, wet lockers, sea berths and domestic arrangements that worked for living aboard for more than the odd night in a marina...now many of these features are disappearing fast. It's very difficult to see what current generation of yacht I could buy. My present one (2000) might well be my last. So if boat design is being compromised to sell more, then it hasn't worked for me and they've probably a potential future customer!

 

[Ubergeekian]

You mean it's small, cramped, dark, scruffy and smelly?

I was referring more to the construction than the design. But yes, compared to modern boats of the same size she is smaller, consequently more cramped and rather darker than some. I try not to let her get scruffy and the worst smell is probably me.

 

[trapezeartist]

I was referring more to the construction than the design. But yes, compared to modern boats of the same size she is smaller, consequently more cramped and rather darker than some. I try not to let her get scruffy and the worst smell is probably me.

Brick with a tiled roof!

(I'm not getting this, am I?)

 

[Ubergeekian]

Brick with a tiled roof!

(I'm not getting this, am I?)

Your grasp of metaphor perhaps needs a little work!

 

[Nostrodamus]

For instance last summer I sailed a nearly new Hallberg Rassy 342 across to France and back. There was no autopilot.
I had previously sailed the Hallberg 34 a lot, enjoyed sailing them and liked the design. In the sales literature they go on about finding more space for the same Hull length and I agree they have.
The problem I found was that the wheel had been put so far back in the cockpit you were pretty much pinned in. Only enough room for a pair of size 10’s and no room to bend the knees. After 20 minutes my legs were so stiff we had to swop the helm. Each one of us found it the same and found ourselves standing side on to the wheel.
This is just a for instance and just something I came across. Others may find it different but all four of us on that trip had real problems and it probably would only be discovered if you sailed the boat for some time, not from a boat show.

Has anyone else found problems such as this on newer types of boats where in their opinion things have been compromised too far?

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

A wise man once said that you can have any two of the following.

Good performance
Comfortable interior
Low cost

Every single aspect of every boat is a compromise.

Where you draw the line between speed and comfort, windward performance and ditch crawling, interior space and cockpit working space, price and standard of fit etc is very much a personal choice.

Telling someone their choice is wrong, is a bit like telling a bloke his wife is ugly. You may think so, but it's neither your place to say so - or of any relevance.

I stood the chance of having far less support in my wish to go off and cruise farther afield with hopefully my wife as crew.
I know what two she preferred and so that made my mind up pretty quick.

 

[Lakesailor]

A wise man once said that you can have any two of the following.

Good performance
Comfortable interior
Low cost

Every single aspect of every boat is a compromise.

Where you draw the line between speed and comfort, windward performance and ditch crawling, interior space and cockpit working space, price and standard of fit etc is very much a personal choice.

Telling someone their choice is wrong, is a bit like telling a bloke his wife is ugly. You may think so, but it's neither your place to say so - or of any relevance.

Absolutely right. It's an expensive little hobby and at whatever level you participate you must get pleasure and satisfaction. That is your only goal.

Guilty as charged, I really like sitting in and on, my little Kestrel 22 from the 1970's in GRP, as it barely bobs in a reasonably sited marina in Weymouth.

It was bought via ebay, I know very very little about sailing, yet the yearning to go out has meant it has, twice in the 2 months of ownership.
I have made some friends with speedboats and yachts who are now neighbours as well as some jolly chats with very large boats without sails, which have come and gone.

I have slept on it for 15 nights now, it is cramped but then it's small and I'm tall.

A member on here and I will be trying my tug out properly, which is something I really look forward to. However, the boat remains foremost a pleasurable place to get some fresh air and relaxation, for the family and I.
It must remain that ideal or it becomes a too expensive hobby for me at this time.

I have nothing but admiration for those who 'pop over to here and there', in whatever they choose to do it in, and one day perhaps, I will do it.

This world of boats is almost completely new to me, but looking back I now realise how many times I have wandered around harbours, and looked at sailboats off the coast......and I really like the pictures of boats on here, doing their thing, it's like porn for the Soul.

Well done Vern. Quite an admission on a thread like this. However, once a month doesn't sound too shabby and you have more plans. Whatever you do, if you get enjoyment it's justification enough.

I am not a racer, strangely as I used to love being active in motorsport. However I went out to photograph a race on Saturday of the lovely Windermere 17ft class yachts. It was horrible weather, overcast, raining, very gusty, yet I could see how much they were enjoying themselves and it made sense. I almost wanted to buy one.

The only room we have to criticise others is when it adversely affects us. Like jetskiers zooming about moorings and generally messing up others' days.

 

[Lucky Duck]

For instance last summer I sailed a nearly new Hallberg Rassy 342 across to France and back. There was no autopilot.
I had previously sailed the Hallberg 34 a lot, enjoyed sailing them and liked the design. In the sales literature they go on about finding more space for the same Hull length and I agree they have.
The problem I found was that the wheel had been put so far back in the cockpit you were pretty much pinned in. Only enough room for a pair of size 10’s and no room to bend the knees. After 20 minutes my legs were so stiff we had to swop the helm. Each one of us found it the same and found ourselves standing side on to the wheel.
This is just a for instance and just something I came across. Others may find it different but all four of us on that trip had real problems and it probably would only be discovered if you sailed the boat for some time, not from a boat show.

The HR 342 comes in both tiller and wheel flavours so I wonder if it is a case of the designer favoured the tiller option and the wheel was a bit of an afterthought?

 

[Nostrodamus]

The HR 342 comes in both tiller and wheel flavours so I wonder if it is a case of the designer favoured the tiller option and the wheel was a bit of an afterthought?

I am not really sure the thinking behind it other than it created more space elsewhere. The previous version was a wonderful boat to sail but this one was so uncomfortable.

 

[Lucky Duck]

I tracked down some photos of one with wheel steering (the ones on the HR website all have a tiller), it could really do with an different cockpit layout rather than just sticking the pedestal on a cockpit laid out for a tiller.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

Are modern boats up to it?

Wrong question ... are modern sailers up to it?

The boats in their respective market segments are loads better than they used to be - no question about it - just like cars.

I've got nothing against old boats, some of the well cared for examples are lovely - I just think modern boats are easier to live with - it's called progress.

 

[ALPHORA]

first yacht I sailed on was a Rival 38, first boat owned was a Nicholson 35, then decided to go for more room and bought a French AWB, and have sailed on several other modern boats. After lots of thought and trying all sorts of boats, we then and bought a Tayana 37. For us the compromise of space and shiny bits against comfort when sailing made our decision easy, and one we have not regretted over the last 7 years. Occasionally we look at roomy newer boats and have doubts, but only when we are in harbour. We sailed across Biscay about a month ago, very pleasant trip. We were joined in the harbour by a 40 foot AWB, being sailed by a delivery crew. There were 3 on board, one had jumped ship at their last port of call as he thought the boat was going to break up with all the slamming it was suffering from, the 3 left on board offered us a swap. We are often a bit slower than some, but tend to fare reasonably well on long trips. Another consideration for us, as we usually sail two handed, was for a design that is easy to keep on track, especially when the sea builds up. Our canoe stern an long keel works for us. No yacht will ever do everything better than the next.

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

Are modern boats up to it? Depends upon what modern boat.
Those built along traditional styles that can still go out in a real blow or those ocean going round the worlders, of course.... the answer is 'Yes'. To the white caravan awbs.... possibly 'No!' But as we all know, boats are always a compromise and thankfully there are enough on the market to satisfy all.

I can only say as I find.... Just got back from my first ever weekend sail in my Tradewind.
Of course the weather was very kind in giving us F3-4 Sat to get used to her and set her up and F6-7 today....perfect, just what Tradewinds are designed for and with her cutter rig well reefed we were cruising through the big stuff at a steady 6 knots and peaking at 7.5.
We were overtaking the awbs, like the large 'bendy toys', who were really struggling to still sail in the chop and looking around we saw very few yachts making a real 'sail of it'.
Oh on the way out we did see another Tradewind coming in from what looked a long sail by the smiles on their faces.

 

[Nostrodamus]

We were overtaking the awbs, like the large 'bendy toys', who were really struggling to still sail in the chop and looking around we saw very few yachts making a real 'sail of it'.
Oh on the way out we did see another Tradewind coming in from what looked a long sail by the smiles on their faces.

Scotty, you are a brave man. I suggest you duck or go out in these high winds where they cannot get at you?