Are modern boats up to it?

[Nostrodamus]

Having lived aboard for a while in a Marina it is noticeable that only about 10% of the boats actually go out sailing. The rest get visitors at the weekends that immediately get the drinks out and just sit there before going home.
Modern boats are spacious, have two heads, the biggest owners cabin they can fit in and the interior looks good in brochure glossy pictures but have designers and builders of boats compromised themselves to sell more units.
At one time boats were built to the designer’s specification and then a price was decided upon. Now it seems that a price is decided upon and a boat is built to those specifications. A boat used to be over engineered but now only the minimum spec parts are added.
Have boat builders sacrificed the ability of a boat to sail well in favour of just selling more.
As usual I may be too far behind the times and the plastic this and that on modern boats are as good as or better than the old ones made out of traditional materials.
Would you buy a new production boat or use the same money to buy an older boat?
I may be totally wrong and stand to be corrected but I would like to hear the views of others.

 

[sighmoon]

I don't think the reason they don't go anywhere is because they doubt their boat is up to it.

 

[Strathglass]

I don't think the reason they don't go anywhere is because they doubt their boat is up to it.

Perhaps the reason is they doubt that they are up to it?

 

[Nostrodamus]

I don't think the reason they don't go anywhere is because they doubt their boat is up to it.

You may be right but it seems the newer the boat is the less it goes out. The ones that go out in any weather are always older boats but then again the skippers always seem that bit more "crusty".

 

[Csail]

I would prefer a 70s /80s boat.

 

[Nostrodamus]

I know it is difficult to compare one boat against another but I have been in similar really bad weather in a old Rival and a new Jeanneau.
In the Rival we were still able to sail with a bit of canvas up. At no point did I doubt the boats seaworthy capabilities and she just plodded on to our destination (Fecamp) and the skipper even took a couple of hours to get some sleep.
In the Jeanneau I had almost no sail out, the engine on and to be honest felt petrified athough I cannot say why.
Both boats got to there given destinations with no problems at all but given the same conditions again I know which boat I would rather be in.

 

[fireball]

No doubt that an old Rival will take a heavy sea head on much better than an AWB - it's much heavier and more streamlined - so it will go through the waves. The AWB will usually go over the top and slam into the next one...

Would I prefer a Rival or an AWB?
Well - I'd like both - heavy weather as described - the old MAB that's designed to be sailed in 20+ knots without a reef.
In sunshine and light winds - give me an AWB - far more comfortable and capable of sailing in much lighter winds....
Heck - some weekends I'd prefer a Mobo so I could blast over to the CI's for lunch ...

 

[Lakesailor]

I have a friend who had his 40ft yacht on Hull Marina for some time.
He was accosted by someone who accused him of just having a floating caravan as the boat didn't seem to go anywhere.
He'd actually done over 1500 miles that season.
When a boat is out of it's berth it maybe doesn't register that 's missing when you look around.
As a liveaboard you may keep track more easily of boat movements, but the question is............

Does it matter? If that's what they enjoy spending their loot on (staying in the marina) what difference does that make?

On Windermere there are something like 860 occupied swinging moorings plus over 400 marina and jetty berths.
Thankfully not many people take their boats out very often.

 

[Nostrodamus]

Lakesailor,
I was not tryin to comment so much on the use of the boat, more on modern v older designs and if boat builders were making compromises to sell boats over there sailing abilities.

 

[doug748]

I know one thing, this is going to end badly.

 

[Robin]

I know one thing, this is going to end badly.

Agreed. Another attempt to score points and/or justify personal prejudices.

 

[Ex-SolentBoy]

Lakesailor,
I was not tryin to comment so much on the use of the boat, more on modern v older designs and if boat builders were making compromises to sell boats over there sailing abilities.

I suspect the boat builders are building what there customers want to buy.

Years ago the only people who sailed were people who wanted the sailing experience. They wanted the serious weather boats.

These days there are so many more in the sport. Some still want the"proper boat", some want to race, some want to gently cruise, some want a floating caravan. Builders have just responded to the market requirement.

There fine with me. Room on the water for everyone.

 

[rotrax]

Hi, Boat manufacturers have to sell boats or go out of business. As in other spheres of leisure they react to the requirements-percieved by marketing experts perhaps-of their potential customer base. If they get it wrong, Goodnight Irene! There will always be comparison between craft of different types and some sailors get VERY uptight about the pro's and cons of the type they own or covet. This weekend First Mate and I were so much slower than UWB.s in the light flukey winds we found.Our heavy long keeler has other virtues though and it suits us. That is all that really matters-its a compromise.

 

[Lakesailor]

Lakesailor,
I was not tryin to comment so much on the use of the boat, more on modern v older designs and if boat builders were making compromises to sell boats over there sailing abilities.

Oh. I misunderstood the opening paragraph

Having lived aboard for a while in a Marina it is noticeable that only about 10% of the boats actually go out sailing. The rest get visitors at the weekends that immediately get the drinks out and just sit there before going home.

It really doesn't matter. Everyone gets their kicks different ways.

 

[snowleopard]

It's very common for owners of older (or no) boats to slam AWBs as 'floating caravans' but many a Beneteau has crossed oceans without problems. The notion that a 'proper boat' has narrow beam, long overhangs, teak deck and lots of dark wood down below ignores all the R&D that has gone on over the last 40 years. I don't own or want an AWB but I would be quite happy passage-making in one. They often sail far better than their more traditionally-styled contemporaries.

 

[doug748]

It's very common for owners of older (or no) boats to slam AWBs......

Beware Snowleopard, I still bear the scar of you branding my teak interior fittings as "like the inside of Miss Marple's library" Hurumph.

 

[Nostrodamus]

Times are hard and if a boat manufacturer can cut costs I am sure they will do so but to what point. Technology is constantly evolving and so is boat design. It may be that new methods are found to produce a hull that is thinner but stronger than the older ways. I am sure when GRP came in wooden boat owners viewed it with scepticism, same with roller furling and chart plotters. Boats do evolve the same as everything else. You are right in saying that the boat manufactures will build what they think people want but what do they actually want. Do they want the space and looks that may compromise sailing ability or a boat that will sail anywhere but will compromise the looks or space. Can you hav both?
Looking at some new boats they do look beautiful and I sometimes think, why didn’t they do that before and how did they get so much space. There are advantages but there also has to be compromises.
I suppose you pay your money and makes your choice.

 

[Woodlouse]

You can't lump all new boats together. Some new boats are fantastic sea boats and an absolute joy to sail. Others however are abominations that are only really meant for motorsailing in very fair weather.

Each boat has been built for a market, these markets do vary and so then does the quality of the design and build.

 

[Sans Bateau]

I suspect the boat builders are building what there customers want to buy.

Years ago the only people who sailed were people who wanted the sailing experience. They wanted the serious weather boats.

These days there are so many more in the sport. Some still want the"proper boat", some want to race, some want to gently cruise, some want a floating caravan. Builders have just responded to the market requirement.

There fine with me. Room on the water for everyone.

Your words "proper boats", were the only ones available in the 60's or 70's. But like all product designs, production and materials develop, so do the markets. Today sailing appeals to a much wider audience, it has become more of a family pastime. Mrs boat owner would not be impressed with a cramped cabin, pipe cots, and a meths stove. Much in the same way, years ago camping consisted of a proofed cotton canvas tent, separate ground sheet that would let in water and all sorts of wildlife. Today modern trailer tents are a world away from the old designs.

As for the large number of newer boats that dont move, whilst I dont doubt the OP observation, you can go to some marinas where the older boats are ones that dont move, as they gradually decay, the appeal of a boat that needs a F6 to make any decent headway having become unpopular.

 

[Poignard]

Looking at advertisements for modern yachts I sometimes wonder if some modern designers and builders are less concerned with seaworthiness and practicability than with producing something to pose on.