Any Seagull outboard experts?

[VicS]

Thanks for that explanation, Vic. I think mine's a 1967 model it runs happily with the original needle on 1:20 but even with the replacement needle it hunts at 1:25. As it is now it saves a fortune in oil and doesn't lay such a dense smokescreen. The great thing about them is their longevity and I think the concerns over pollution are overstated.

I have found that in order to get my converted 1974 Featherweight to run smoothly without excessive "4 stroking" I have to screw the needle adjustment right down to the max recommended 3 turns below flush with the top of the piston. ( and to be honest just a tad more)
It's fairly critical . Back off a little and it 4 strokes, screw down too much and it needs the choke partly closed for longer than is convenient.

Before I bought the Featherweight I used a 40+ on the tender which I ran on 10:1 using a straight sae 30 oil. 35 years later I am sure the smoke still lingers over Portsmouth harbour!

 

[JumbleDuck]

From 1967 models onwards they can be converted to run on 25:1 by changing the carb needle ( or jets in the case of models with Amal carbs) but prior to that date they had smaller bearings and conversion is not recommended and may not prove to be satisfactory esp on well worn engines.

I had what I thought was an old Silver Century but may have been a Century 100, which I converted to 25:1 just by putting 25:1 in it. I was planning to change the jet as well, but it ran so well on 25:1 that I never bothered. Fuel consumption fell by around a half when I made the change - I know because I motored from Portpatrick to Peel on 10:1, refuelling every hour, and then a week later I motored from Peel to Kirkcudbright on 25:1, refuelling every 2 hours.

My hearing returned to normal within a few weeks.

 

[VicS]

I had what I thought was an old Silver Century but may have been a Century 100, which I converted to 25:1 just by putting 25:1 in it. I was planning to change the jet as well, but it ran so well on 25:1 that I never bothered. Fuel consumption fell by around a half when I made the change - I know because I motored from Portpatrick to Peel on 10:1, refuelling every hour, and then a week later I motored from Peel to Kirkcudbright on 25:1, refuelling every 2 hours.

My hearing returned to normal within a few weeks.

Century 100 models had Villiers carbs. Silver Century models had 2-jet Amal Carbs. I think that may have been the only difference between them.

Plus models, in both cases, had a clutch.

 

[Tranona]

Plus models, in both cases, had a clutch.

And a different reduction ratio. 3.5:1 for a Century (same as a non clutch 40+) and 4:1 for a clutch box, and different props obviously.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Century 100 models had Villiers carbs. Silver Century models had 2-jet Amal Carbs. I think that may have been the only difference between them.

Plus models, in both cases, had a clutch.

Definitely have a clutch. I shall have a curious stare at the remains (on my workshop floor in bits, free to anyone who wants 'em) too see what carb it had.

I still don't know why it ran so much more frugally on 25:1. I'd have thought the lower viscosity would have resulted in a richer mixture.

 

[Billjratt]

The pics earlier in the thread illustrate the need for my fix which was a 'water trap' consisting of a "T" piece cut into the bottom of the fuel line, leading to a (in my case) small glass jar. Just look at what's lying at the base of the loop in the fuel line. unscrew the jar, spill the contents = real fuel..
It made all the difference to my engine as it had a possibly late, steel fuel tank that rusted all over the place, allowing lots of water into the fuel.
From memory it was a silver century plus with clutch and five-blade prop, pushed a corribee fine, shame about no reverse...

 

[PetiteFleur]

You either love them or hate them. As said they work fine at home in the water butt, put them on the back of a dinghy and they won't start! - well that's my experience anyway, and it was a later version with electronic ignition model 55 from memory. Oh and it ALWAYS leaked fuel in the back of the car. Then I bought an unused Honda 2hp and what a revelation - always started, never leaked oil or fuel. The Seagull was put ebay and sold for what I thought was a lot of money and I never regretted it. Get it started and running and then put on ebay and you'll (hopefully) pleased with what it fetches.

 

[ffiill]

Yes that is correct see http://www.saving-old-seagulls.co.uk/i_d_your_seagull/i_d_your_seagull.php?EngineNum=LLSL+318G6

Century 100 not Silver Century as JD suggests

http://www.britishseagullparts.com/Century-LSS.htm

£150 or a bit more perhaps. It is in exceptionally good nick
They fetch silly money when they turn up unused in their original crates.


Its an old Villers ignition system. Coil and/or condenser could be shot but spares available from John Williams


If you remove the flywheel be sure to do it as per the instructions on the website ... Don't use a puller.

Disagree totally about magneto.
My 40 featherweight was bought in June 1967 after I badgered my Dad and still has its Villiers magneto.
However if its not fitted with its origional spark plug worth sourcing some even if you pay £10 each for them.
The Villiers Magneto seems to prefer them.
After twenty years stored in my Dads garage I brought mine out of retirement in 1990 and its been in annual use ever since with its second pull cold start!

 

[Allan]

You either love them or hate them. As said they work fine at home in the water butt, put them on the back of a dinghy and they won't start! - well that's my experience anyway, and it was a later version with electronic ignition model 55 from memory. Oh and it ALWAYS leaked fuel in the back of the car. Then I bought an unused Honda 2hp and what a revelation - always started, never leaked oil or fuel. The Seagull was put ebay and sold for what I thought was a lot of money and I never regretted it. Get it started and running and then put on ebay and you'll (hopefully) pleased with what it fetches.

I have one with a clutch that did the start in a tank but not on a dinghy thing. I replaced it with another outboard which is great. I've since been told the problem! They must not be too deep in the water, the back pressure on the exhaust kills them. I'm not 100% sure this is the answer but mine will be on EBay soon so I won't find out.
Allan

 

[theoldsalt]

Im surprised no response yet from Dylan !

 

[Wooden Boat Fittings]

All Seagulls from 1978 on use 25:1 mix
All Seagulls prior to 1968 use 10:1 mix.
Seagulls from the intervening decade can be modified to use 25:1.

As stated earlier, http://www.saving-old-seagulls.co.uk/ is THE site to go to for help with Seagulls, from which, as shown, you can determine that your motor is a 4 hp Century 100. The site's owner, John Williams, is an ex water police officer who knows just about all there is to know about these motors, and is a great bloke into the bargain.

I have a 1985 4.5 hp Silver Century 75 long-shaft (with clutch, which makes a difference). It's always started when wanted and it's always given excellent service. (It once pushed my heavy 15' clinker dinghy Aileen Louisa for miles, laden with 6 adults, 2 teenagers, and a baby, and without batting an eyelid.)

As has been noted, some people swear by Seagulls while others swear at them. I myself am definitely in the first category.

Mike

ETA -- Oh, Dylan will be along soon, I'm sure. He's in the opposite camp, and will no doubt tell us in great detail why.

 

[Daydream believer]

If you use it then make sure you have a Seagull spanner, a spare spring for the prop, a pair of pliers ( to remove & replace the split pin on the prop) & a spare plug.
If you can get hold of a rubber air intake cover then fit one as it keeps the spray from entering the engine

My Seagull instructions say that if it refuses to start after 4 pulls then change the plug & that seems to be correct as it always works for me. Forget which plug it is I believe my century had a Champion No 4 com but made the mistake of selling it so now I only have my 40+ which my father bought in 1960 & was reconditioned by Seagull some years later when they had a special deal on at the time

 

[Rivers & creeks]

All

Thanks for the comments, it appears Seagulls are the Marmite of the boating world.

I really would like to clean it up and keep it in the house as a piece of art, because I can appreciate the simple elegant design, but Mrs Nasher isn’t of the same opinion.

The comment about Seagull racing in intriguing, especially as it appears to be concentrated in Cornwall and my eldest son is at Uni in Falmouth.
Perhaps he and some friends can start a team.

Nasher

Not a good analogy; some people like marmite.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Not a good analogy; some people like marmite.

And many people like Seagulls! I grew up with them, and will admit that there is probably a knack to operating them. But I don't recognize any of the starting problems people report - ours simply worked! If it didn't start quickly, you cleaned the plug and then it went. The only other (embarrassing) causes of it not starting were forgetting to unscrew the air vent on the tank or failing to open the fuel valve. Once those things were attended to, it worked. My brother and I had hours of fun zipping around in an inflatable powered by a Seagull (to pacify Dylan and others, I'll note that we didn't do this near other boats!); never once do I recall it failing to start once you did the right things. And you very quickly got into the knack of closing the fuel valve the right distance from the end of your run, so the carburettor is empty when it stops.

Those who love them recognize the incredible simplicity of the design, which makes them both robust and, if treated properly, reliable. And they really can be fully dismantled and reassembled with a minimum of tools; my brother and I did it a couple of times, and the engines (one of which had spent a tide underwater) worked fine afterwards.

However, if you read the SOS site, you'll note that John tells of problems with machines that are Franken-Seagulls (he doesn't use that term!). Sadly, because of the interchangeability of parts between different models, there are Seagulls out there that have been put together from mis-matched parts. Sometimes that's fine; other times it isn't. I suspect a lot of the tales of Seagulls that are perennially unreliable etc. are machines that have been botched together with mis-matched parts from different models.

The other thing is that they won't work if the prop is too deep - the exhaust exits below the water and if there's too much back pressure, the engine won't run. A long-shaft model on a dinghy won't work, in general.

I'm not currently a Seagull owner!

 

[steve66]

I started off repairing seagulls, I loved them. Now for some reason I have no credible answer for, I absolutely hate them. Each to their own though.

 

[Tranona]

I have one with a clutch that did the start in a tank but not on a dinghy thing. I replaced it with another outboard which is great. I've since been told the problem! They must not be too deep in the water, the back pressure on the exhaust kills them. I'm not 100% sure this is the answer but mine will be on EBay soon so I won't find out.
Allan

That is correct. Starting problems on dinghy engines are almost always because the engine is too low in the water and made worse by a heavy person leaning over while trying to start forcing it even lower in the water. Particularly bad on round tail dinghies such as Redcrests which lack buoyancy, so better if the crew sit in the bow while starting. The best engine for dinghies was the 40 Featherweight which was specifically designed for Avons, having a 2:1 reduction and small prop so was not so fierce when just started and crucially had a 13" shaft which is 2" shorter than the standard. The same effect can be achieved with a 40+ by putting an extra clamp on the down tube to raise the powerhead. This advice was in the handbook.

 

[VicS]

That is correct. Starting problems on dinghy engines are almost always because the engine is too low in the water and made worse by a heavy person leaning over while trying to start forcing it even lower in the water. Particularly bad on round tail dinghies such as Redcrests which lack buoyancy, so better if the crew sit in the bow while starting. The best engine for dinghies was the 40 Featherweight which was specifically designed for Avons, having a 2:1 reduction and small prop so was not so fierce when just started and crucially had a 13" shaft which is 2" shorter than the standard. The same effect can be achieved with a 40+ by putting an extra clamp on the down tube to raise the powerhead. This advice was in the handbook.

13"shaft

Small prop:

Depth adjusting collar:

 

[Tranona]

Cunning piece of dual purpose engineering. The collar is just 2 of the normal down tube clamps bolted together. Most profitable accessory in the range.

 

[Floyd Raser]

Surely the place for these engines is at a Country Show or Steam Fair, being exhibited along with the other stationary engines, maybe in the "hit & miss" section?

If only the resources of this excellent forum and the SOS website had been available back in the day maybe more of us would love them.
I should be thankful though; as a schoolboy I learned how to quickly change a spark plug while afloat in small dinghy. I was offered a Century 100 to go with my boat when I bought it, but painful memories helped me decide to leave it.
It would be interesting to have a play with one again but playing with old engines is one hobby and sailing another. I think it may be a good idea to keep the two apart.

 

[VicS]

Cunning piece of dual purpose engineering. The collar is just 2 of the normal down tube clamps bolted together. Most profitable accessory in the range.

70p when I bought it!