Any advice on internal wood products

[steveeasy]

Hi,
My sailing season has come to a rather abrupt stop for the next few weeks. while its being sorted, its made a little time to get things in order within the cabin and galley. A Contessa 32 heavily varnished and it just feels too dark. Ive carefully started removing the varnish and the wood is in good order. I dont wish to paint, as I may end up regretting this. Id like a lighter feel and perhaps a Matt Finish. Any suggestions on types of suitable products and should I use a bleach to clean the wood. most of which is stain free.
I am hoping to work in sections rather than starting a full internal refit I dont have time to finish.

Any advice appreciated.

Steveeasy

 

[Concerto]

Steve, the colour depends on what timber has been used. The Contessa Association should be able to advise what timber was used and what finish was originally applied. Bleaching the wood may lighten the timber slightly. You will need to ensure there is no remaining finish on the wood and to do this wet the timber and see the moisture is absorbed evenly on the wood, if not then some more preparation work is required. If you want to try bleaching a small patch, buy the cheapest supermarket bleach as it is not perfumed, and dilute with 4 parts water to 1 of bleach. Brush on and leave for about 15 minutes, then wash off with fresh water. See if there is a difference in colour, but some timbers will change very little.

I suspect Jeremy Rogers used a laquer not a varnish. The reason is it is very quick drying allowing up to 4 coats a day and is not sticky whilst drying. Where as varnish takes 24 hours between coats and attracts dust until dry, so not really suitable in a building shed.

There are a number of manufacturers suppling lacquers, I have used Morrells. They mainly supply the furniture industry, so are really a trade supplier with a string of branches all over the country. I bought the same lacquer as Westerly used, which is their 450 acid catalyst high build low odour lacquer. It can be from full gloss to fully matt. Westerly used a slight sheen using a 30% mix, i.e. close to fully matt. The smallest quantity they supply is 5 litres, with associated catalyst and 5 litres of thinners. A couple of years ago this was just under £60 including VAT. It is designed to be sprayed, but can be brushed. I applied 3 coats to Concerto's interior and it brought the sapele interior to life.
Morrells | 450 Low Odour High Build Acid-Catalyst Lacquer

This presentation I gave explains it in a lot more detail.
https://wiki.westerly-owners.co.uk/images/2/25/Interior_Woodwork_Concerto_PowerPoint.pdf

This photo shows the difference between the lack lustre port side of the main bilkhead and the refinished starboard side.



Edit. It was very late last night and I forgot to include a video of Concerto at the Southampton Boat Show when the interior woodwork had been almost completed.

 

[MisterBaxter]

I would always use tung oil for interior wood. You can apply lots of coats and get a glossy finish if you like, but I prefer the basic semi-gloss finish you get from three or four coats. It's great stuff - wipe on with a cloth with little preparation, apply the next coat half an hour after the last one, touch up small areas any time, non toxic, no fumes. Vastly less hassle than any other finish I know of, and gives a lovely soft sheen.

 

[harvey38]

I subscribe to Travels with Geordie on YT and he uses Tung Oil a lot on his timber boat restorations, it looks good but I'm not brave enough and always fall back to Epiphanes.

 

[PetiteFleur]

I have been pleased with International Woodskin - used on my dinghy & some outside woodwork on the boat. Semi matt. Internally I've used International varnish which gives a glossy finish, but only on trim items. Hope this helps.

 

[Sandy]

www.letonkinoisvarnish.co.uk/varmain.html is all you need for interior and exterior varnishing.

 

[Tranona]

www.letonkinoisvarnish.co.uk/varmain.html is all you need for interior and exterior varnishing.

If it were so wonderful the i would think that there would be nothing else on the market - and there clearly is, many of which sell in vastly greater volumes than this product.

Not that there is anything wrong with it - just saying.

 

[Sandy]

If it were so wonderful the i would think that there would be nothing else on the market - and there clearly is, many of which sell in vastly greater volumes than this product.

Not that there is anything wrong with it - just saying.

The joy of a free market and high marketing budgets.

I find the stuff better than any of the modern concoctions and am always happy to point people in its direction; they are free to make up their own minds.

 

[steveeasy]

Steve, the colour depends on what timber has been used. The Contessa Association should be able to advise what timber was used and what finish was originally applied. Bleaching the wood may lighten the timber slightly. You will need to ensure there is no remaining finish on the wood and to do this wet the timber and see the moisture is absorbed evenly on the wood, if not then some more preparation work is required. If you want to try bleaching a small patch, buy the cheapest supermarket bleach as it is not perfumed, and dilute with 4 parts water to 1 of bleach. Brush on and leave for about 15 minutes, then wash off with fresh water. See if there is a difference in colour, but some timbers will change very little.

I suspect Jeremy Rogers used a laquer not a varnish. The reason is it is very quick drying allowing up to 4 coats a day and is not sticky whilst drying. Where as varnish takes 24 hours between coats and attracts dust until dry, so not really suitable in a building shed.

There are a number of manufacturers suppling lacquers, I have used Morrells. They mainly supply the furniture industry, so are really a trade supplier with a string of branches all over the country. I bought the same lacquer as Westerly used, which is their 450 acid catalyst high build low odour lacquer. It can be from full gloss to fully matt. Westerly used a slight sheen using a 30% mix, i.e. close to fully matt. The smallest quantity they supply is 5 litres, with associated catalyst and 5 litres of thinners. A couple of years ago this was just under £60 including VAT. It is designed to be sprayed, but can be brushed. I applied 3 coats to Concerto's interior and it brought the sapele interior to life.
Morrells | 450 Low Odour High Build Acid-Catalyst Lacquer

This presentation I gave explains it in a lot more detail.
https://wiki.westerly-owners.co.uk/images/2/25/Interior_Woodwork_Concerto_PowerPoint.pdf

This photo shows the difference between the lack lustre port side of the main bilkhead and the refinished starboard side.

View attachment 160375

Edit. It was very late last night and I forgot to include a video of Concerto at the Southampton Boat Show when the interior woodwork had been almost completed.

Please dont start me off about the Contessa Association. forum with 1 post everything else locked. 800 boats built with annual subscriptions. In terms of resources its poor.

The info above is much appreciated.

Steveeasy

 

[Tranona]

The joy of a free market and high marketing budgets.

I find the stuff better than any of the modern concoctions and am always happy to point people in its direction; they are free to make up their own minds.

But you specifically said "all you need" when this is patently not the case when the vast majority of consumers do not use the product. How many other products have you tried and tested before coming to this conclusion?

Maybe if you suggested the OP tried it based on your experience it might be more believable

 

[steveeasy]

Steve, the colour depends on what timber has been used. The Contessa Association should be able to advise what timber was used and what finish was originally applied. Bleaching the wood may lighten the timber slightly. You will need to ensure there is no remaining finish on the wood and to do this wet the timber and see the moisture is absorbed evenly on the wood, if not then some more preparation work is required. If you want to try bleaching a small patch, buy the cheapest supermarket bleach as it is not perfumed, and dilute with 4 parts water to 1 of bleach. Brush on and leave for about 15 minutes, then wash off with fresh water. See if there is a difference in colour, but some timbers will change very little.

I suspect Jeremy Rogers used a laquer not a varnish. The reason is it is very quick drying allowing up to 4 coats a day and is not sticky whilst drying. Where as varnish takes 24 hours between coats and attracts dust until dry, so not really suitable in a building shed.

There are a number of manufacturers suppling lacquers, I have used Morrells. They mainly supply the furniture industry, so are really a trade supplier with a string of branches all over the country. I bought the same lacquer as Westerly used, which is their 450 acid catalyst high build low odour lacquer. It can be from full gloss to fully matt. Westerly used a slight sheen using a 30% mix, i.e. close to fully matt. The smallest quantity they supply is 5 litres, with associated catalyst and 5 litres of thinners. A couple of years ago this was just under £60 including VAT. It is designed to be sprayed, but can be brushed. I applied 3 coats to Concerto's interior and it brought the sapele interior to life.
Morrells | 450 Low Odour High Build Acid-Catalyst Lacquer

This presentation I gave explains it in a lot more detail.
https://wiki.westerly-owners.co.uk/images/2/25/Interior_Woodwork_Concerto_PowerPoint.pdf

This photo shows the difference between the lack lustre port side of the main bilkhead and the refinished starboard side.

View attachment 160375

Edit. It was very late last night and I forgot to include a video of Concerto at the Southampton Boat Show when the interior woodwork had been almost completed.

Roger,
Watched the video now. Far too much room in a Fulmar. Just could not cope with all that space. She looks very nice though. A credit to all your hard work.
Steveeasy

 

[fredrussell]

But you specifically said "all you need" when this is patently not the case when the vast majority of consumers do not use the product. How many other products have you tried and tested before coming to this conclusion?

Maybe if you suggested the OP tried it based on your experience it might be more believable

When someone uses a phrase like “all you need is…”, to me, it just means they rate it very highly.

 

[steveeasy]

Rather see lots of pics than dissect a single sentence.

Steveeasy

 

[Tranona]

When someone uses a phrase like “all you need is…”, to me, it just means they rate it very highly.

There is wide range of products specifically for interiors, lacquers, varnishes, oils and polishes that will achieve the muted finish that the OP desires - and Tonkinois does not have the properties that will achieve this as you can see from here.
Le Tonkinois

So "all you need" is simply not correct, It is one of the better finishes for external work, although in my experience there are better - but it is often a matter of personal preference (and habit!).

Lacquer is preferred by many builders for the reasons concerto mentioned. For fine finishes in custom building Epifanes is often the finish of choice but it is time consuming to get that perfect drawing room furniture finish. Personally I use Ronseal satin, as being a poor lazy painter gives a good long lasting finish for little effort. It also blends in very well with finishes used on many modern boats like the Bavarias I owned, although I am not sure I would use it on large expanses of veneered bulkheads unless I was stripping right back or using new veneers as in the pictures attached. The first 2 were taken about 20 years after the finishes were applied and the last is new (in a different boat) There are no doubt many other good products available but few of us DIYers try enough of them to be able to give a balanced view.

If the OP wants to recreate the original then suggest he contacts Jeremy Rogers' firm to find out what they use, As ever it is the preparation that is key, not the final finish and stripping completely and refinishing is a mammoth task as concerto explains. That is perhaps why so many older boats need such drastic treatment - owners investigate and decide it is beyond them! Solid trim is relatively easy but large expanses like main bulkheads are challenging.

 

[steveeasy]

There is wide range of products specifically for interiors, lacquers, varnishes, oils and polishes that will achieve the muted finish that the OP desires - and Tonkinois does not have the properties that will achieve this as you can see from here.
Le Tonkinois

So "all you need" is simply not correct, It is one of the better finishes for external work, although in my experience there are better - but it is often a matter of personal preference (and habit!).

Lacquer is preferred by many builders for the reasons concerto mentioned. For fine finishes in custom building Epifanes is often the finish of choice but it is time consuming to get that perfect drawing room furniture finish. Personally I use Ronseal satin, as being a poor lazy painter gives a good long lasting finish for little effort. It also blends in very well with finishes used on many modern boats like the Bavarias I owned, although I am not sure I would use it on large expanses of veneered bulkheads unless I was stripping right back or using new veneers as in the pictures attached. The first 2 were taken about 20 years after the finishes were applied and the last is new (in a different boat) There are no doubt many other good products available but few of us DIYers try enough of them to be able to give a balanced view.

If the OP wants to recreate the original then suggest he contacts Jeremy Rogers' firm to find out what they use, As ever it is the preparation that is key, not the final finish and stripping completely and refinishing is a mammoth task as concerto explains. That is perhaps why so many older boats need such drastic treatment - owners investigate and decide it is beyond them! Solid trim is relatively easy but large expanses like main bulkheads are challenging.

Hi Traona,
Firstly excuse my supper. A tin of rice pudding and a bottle of beer.Nice!! Well desperate as the shops were closed in Oban at midnight. Frankly I dont like the inside of my boat. too much dark wood. I can live with the bulkhead. its done well and I suspect original. Dont think I could improve it. I wish to improve some of the smaller panels and have started the galley. although it does not look particularly good its in reasonable condition. Ive seen others use white which I like but worry over it flaking or looking tatty, so I am hoping I can use a stain or Laquerre or matt varnish.
The upholstery does not help, but its well made and in good order and im trying to live with it. The Table is awful. I hate it. Not too much to like yet apart from the varnished cupboards which are in superb order. Perhaps I need an interior designer but on a B&Q budget. My former boat pic attached probably answers my question in that there was good contrast of wood and white. made for a good feel. Ill have to give it a lot of thought which may not get me anywhere. Perhaps more time in the cockpit where all is well, well should be.
Steveeasy

 

[steveeasy]

Ok thought about it and white is the answer. Ive always used hemple multicoat 1000. anything better to use that will be flat and at the same time easy to keep clean.

Steveeasy

 

[harvey38]

Strip and re-varnish/stain/oil the wood that can be brought back to your liking and paint what you don't☺

 

[Tranona]

Ok thought about it and white is the answer. Ive always used hemple multicoat 1000. anything better to use that will be flat and at the same time easy to keep clean.

Steveeasy

Some more photos of my current project. White is Dulux Satinwood, similar to what I used 30 odd years ago on the previous boat. Very easy to apply but not very scratch resistant, but most of the surfaces are non wearing. Light veneer is American Oak finished with Osmo oil (as used for kitchen worktops). Dark trim is either teak on the original lockers or a mixture of sapele and iroko.

 

[steveeasy]

Some more photos of my current project. White is Dulux Satinwood, similar to what I used 30 odd years ago on the previous boat. Very easy to apply but not very scratch resistant, but most of the surfaces are non wearing. Light veneer is American Oak finished with Osmo oil (as used for kitchen worktops). Dark trim is either teak on the original lockers or a mixture of sapele and iroko.

Nice contrasts. Think I need to use white but in moderation leaving existing trim.
Steveeasy

 

[doug748]

The gloss varnish is not original as you probably know. Rogers used a semi mat lacquer as often recommended by Concerto.. He knows.
The job is time consuming if done properly and tedious even if skimped. However , in my view, paint would be a disaster with an eye to resale.

BTW. The veneers used by Rogers can be 1.2mm as opposed to the more common .7 which means you can be much more aggressive in sanding. I have actually wire brushed mine to remove black staining