Antifoul time soon...what to go for?

davethedog

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Hi all,

Soon be time to get the boat out the water and apply some new antifoul (as well as other jobs), so what are peoples opinions on what to go for as we are a 47ft cruising monohull sail boat and looking to possibly head to the Med and then the Canary Islands (again) and possibly back across the Atlantic in Jan?

Cheers

DTD
 

bignick

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Are you doing it yourself? Copper coat is (in my opinion) sensitive to application process, humidity and temperature. It doesn’t work very well when it’s this cold and wet. If you need to do it yourself, at this time of year, then I’d avoid coppercoat. Could you wait until the weather improves before applying? Alternatively, buy it here add take it to the Med with you? Haul out in Greece for a couple of weeks and do it there?

As far as conventional anti fouling go, then I’ve been very happy with Seajet over the last couple of years.
 

RunAgroundHard

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I get two years out of International Cruiser 250. Shop around as the price difference can be significant.
Experience is that it works well, no fouling, but towards the end of the two years, I get grass like weed at the waterline on the sunny side of my berth, just wipes off. Slime build up when I lift the yacht that just wipes off.
 

Neeves

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I'd ask in your local area what people use and find effective. AF seems to be location, or environment, specific - what works in one location does not work so well in others - it may be due to salinity or weather (and whether the/a specific owner used his yacht a lot or had limited usage over the last season). The amount of AF applied, many owners are too parsimonious, controls the effectiveness of AF. You need to ask around of a number of owners.

And

As you are doing..... ask here.

But money usually impacts the amount of copper in an AF (and the amount of copper is critical - its defined on the tin) and more copper means better AF. More copper also means a heavier tin.

If you buy top of the range and apply liberally, and use the yacht frequently it is possible to achieve a 2 years life.

The best AFs are for commercial use, Hempels Globic, Jotun's Sea Quantum Ultra, there are others, They are difficult to source privately, are expensive but work exceptionally well

Jonathan
 

Neeves

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I didn't get three months out of Cu Pro.

And that's with a whole 5 litres and three coats of the wretched stuff on a 24' boat so I was hardly being mean with it.
But did you use the yacht frequently?

Most AF are designed to reduce the ability of the fouling to attach to the hull.

Depending on the environment, the water, you only need to leave your yacht stationary for 'not very long', you get some slime, the fouling attach to the slime, gain maturity and then attach to the hull. Unless you physically remove the infant fouling it will not be removed when you next use the yacht. The other problem is that many yachts sit next to vessels that are floating reefs - when the creatures, plants spread their infants the young need something to grow on -

Jonathan
 
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Sailing steve

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But did you use the yacht frequently?

Most AF are designed to reduce the ability of the fouling to attach to the hull.

Depending on the environment, the water, you only need to leave your yacht stationary for 'not very long', you get some slime, the fouling attach to the slime, gain maturity and then attach to the hull. Unless you physically remove the infant fouling it will not be removed when you next use the yacht. The other problem is that many yachts sit next to vessels that are floating reefs - when the creatures, plants spread their infants the young need something to grow on -

Jonathan

For sure lack of use allowing slime to build doesn't help.

But it's a recent problem as I recall being able to keep a hull squeaky clean all season with just occasional weekend use in the past so something to the detriment of antifoul performance must have changed since then. It could be climate change or water utilities enhancing our seas and rivers with copious quantities of raw sewage or antifoul manufactures screwing the leisure market for every penny of profit they can extract with over priced hopelessly ineffective antifoul.

Or maybe it's all three. Whatever it's quite a problem.

Although Cu Pro was the worst by far I've tried Shogun and International and Hemple have not worked well either and I'm using my boat a lot more frequently now that I did back then.
 

Neeves

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For sure lack of use allowing slime to build doesn't help.

But it's a recent problem as I recall being able to keep a hull squeaky clean all season with just occasional weekend use in the past so something to the detriment of antifoul performance must have changed since then. It could be climate change or water utilities enhancing our seas and rivers with copious quantities of raw sewage or antifoul manufactures screwing the leisure market for every penny of profit they can extract with over priced hopelessly ineffective antifoul.

Or maybe it's all three. Whatever it's quite a problem.

Although Cu Pro was the worst by far I've tried Shogun and International and Hemple have not worked well either and I'm using my boat a lot more frequently now that I did back then.

Run off from agriculture into rivers and estuaries (or fertiliser from lawns) can be a problem.

Your comments are not isolated and making it all worse what you used last time, say, lasted 2 years - there is no guarantee you will enjoy the same performance over the next 2 years. Summers have varied ever since I can remember - nothing to with climate change - 2 good summers will raise the water temperate in many mooring fields or marinas - nurturing fouling.

The reason AF is deemed ineffective has little to do with the surface coating companies - they know exactly what compounds will make a good AF paint - but they are not allowed to use same. As their formulations become more sophisticated they become increasingly rule bound - which is why Hempel don't sell Globic over the counter and Jotun don't sell Sea Quantum Ultra over the counter (and International have similar formulations - they would loved to sell to you and I - but cannot (unless you are a 'professional".

So make an effective AF and it will be examined and found unsuitable for you and I, Sea Quantum and Globic are fantastic - a bit pricey, but worth it. But you will find either in a chandler near you, or even one further away. Sea Quantum, used by Maersk -is really good. The product works well as an AF but they have found a way to make it effective for high speed vessels as well as vessels that are laid up, so stationary, and 2 average speeds between stationary and 'high speed'.

Our problems are inconveniences 2 Princess cruise ships, or the same one twice, was refused entry to parts of NZ because of fouling, they had to employ a team of diver to clean a whole ship - mid cruise.

Don't worry people have tried to get round the rules - and found that pandering to us does not help. From a simple Google search

Sea Hawk Paints executives get prison terms in banned- ...

1738401081177.png
Trade Only Today
https://www.tradeonlytoday.com › industry-news › sea-...




10 Dec 2014 — New Nautical was sentenced to a three-year period of probation, which requires the company to complete an environmental compliance program ...

Sea Hawk Paint Execs Go To Prison For Selling TBT Paints

1738401081222.png
Sailing Anarchy Forums
https://forums.sailinganarchy.com › ... › Fix It Anarchy




28 Aug 2015 — A marine coatings company and two executives who pleaded guilty in October to willfully conspiring to obstruct the Environmental Protection ...



Jonathan
 
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Tranona

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I guess AF is like anchors then....
Yes, a bit, partly because of the range of types and brands available and partly because of the impact of local conditions and pattern of use, In many ways your proposed pattern of use is easy on AF because your boat won't be sitting for weeks on end in static, possibly polluted waters. Being on the move in clean water helps, plus you will perhaps have more opportunity to clean the vulnerable areas around the waterline. One of the attractions of Coppercoat for your type of use is that it is easy to clean the small amount of slime. The reason I suggested Cupro is that it is one of the few "professional" - that is more effective products you can buy retail. If it were me doing this job, I would apply 2 coats overall and 3 around the waterline and on the rudder. Pretty sure you would get 2-3 years before having to apply another coat.
 

Neeves

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One of the biggest dangers is the applicator. You use a roller and eke out the AF, its natural to aim for coverage - AF is expensive. With your tin you get the coverage, it looks good and you have applied 2 coats - but you don't get the thickness of film needed for a longer life. Given that applying a thin coat takes a bit longer, but is less effective, this is a bad compromise. You are spending more of your time (but saving money) and resulting with a poor performance.

Better to apply liberally and get 2 years by spending a bit less time (because you don't need to work at 'ekeing') but applying 2, generous, coatings and 3 coats on the wear areas, leading edges.

It is like anchors, lots of choice of product, too many variables in the environment and the performance becomes very subjective.

But the money is in the copper compounds (and a bit in the biocides) and, roughly, you get what you pay for.

The time to consider copper coat is a new boat or an older yacht that is, for you, a keeper. You decide to remove the mast and all the old AF (use something like soda blast) - and you can build a good cover or do it in a big shed. Schedule for the summer. The chances of getting all these tasks at the same time is not great - so the fall back is the easy route - use AF. On top of this - you lose good sailing weather.

But why buyers of new yachts don't have CC applied is a bit of a mystery. Its a bit like why are new yachts kitted with a Delta and not an Epsilon - ......

....AF just like anchors.

There is an argument that applying CC is environmentally friendly, compared with using poison every 2 years, and owners should be encouraged, if not incentivised to use CC - but I cannot think of a workable mechanism. :(.

Jonathan
 

Snowgoose-1

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Yes, a bit, partly because of the range of types and brands available and partly because of the impact of local conditions and pattern of use, In many ways your proposed pattern of use is easy on AF because your boat won't be sitting for weeks on end in static, possibly polluted waters. Being on the move in clean water helps, plus you will perhaps have more opportunity to clean the vulnerable areas around the waterline. One of the attractions of Coppercoat for your type of use is that it is easy to clean the small amount of slime. The reason I suggested Cupro is that it is one of the few "professional" - that is more effective products you can buy retail. If it were me doing this job, I would apply 2 coats overall and 3 around the waterline and on the rudder. Pretty sure you would get 2-3 years before having to apply another coat.
I think many folks can't make Coppercoat
pay it's way.

In my case, I buy a quality 2.5l hard antifoul (two thick coats) .of say £100 'a tin which lasts two seasons.

That's £500 over ten years (inflation being equal to Coppercoat ).I also get the benefit of whatever biocides that are going. I regularly scrub with a Scrubbis and so does my mate with Coppercoat.

I'm happy with the actual reapplying , preparation etc for no cost. There is a cost though, of eventually having the hull blasted. After six years with my current boat , there are no signs of this being needed.

Would I use coppercoat with a new boat ?
I don't honestly know.
 

Chiara’s slave

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The thing about next door’s boat being a floating reef…. What about the pontoon you’re moored to? Ours is thick and lush, been there for 10-15 years. Everyone on our pontoon has issues with fouling, whatever they use.
 

ducked

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Once/if it goes in the water I'm going to be applying very thick, anoxic mud (which is cheap) to it very regularly (roughly diurnally).

No experience, and havn't consulted locally yet, but I have some hopes that will be an at least partly effective antifouling regimen, since I wouldn't expect most fouling to develop under mud. I suppose the effectiveness will partly depend on how deeply the hull is immersed in it, so a centreboarder might do better than my triple keel.

Should this influence my choice of commercial antifouling?

IOW is there a type/brand/application technique especially suitable as a mud supplement?
 
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