awol
Well-Known Member
Lots of bridges on the M25
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-47679224
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-47679224
Another way of disposing of flares?
- Thread starter awol
- Start date
[70521]
Well-Known Member
It's a lot easier handing in the old ones when you buy new.
[3889]
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What a gross over-reaction by plod.
Fender!
Member
[70521]
Well-Known Member
How do your propose they deal with them?
Lon nan Gruagach
Well-Known Member
Any excuse for a fun day out exploding things.
Lon nan Gruagach
Well-Known Member
Its a crafts thing. if they had called an metalsmith they would have cut it up with gas axe, if they had called a carpenter they would have cut it up with a hand saw. As it is, you call explosives people to deal with explosives. and guess what they cut things up with...
[3889]
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By assessing the risk and reacting proportionately, as I did as a firefighter when I came across hazardous items, such as acetylene cylinders which are far more hazardous than a flare. What conceivable risk to motorway traffic, above the risk posed everyday by flares in various locations, was posed by a flare next to a canal?
[70521]
Well-Known Member
How would you risk assess a flare from an unknown source having been kept outdoors for a indeterminate length of time being stable when moved?
Personally, I'd get the people with the knowledge and skills to handle that; it's a bit late when a chemical reaction starts when you lifting it off the ground or above the fuel tank in the back of the panda car. Our risk tolerance is a personal thing. I'd rather stick around for a few more years rather than be maimed or killed because some eejit could not be bothered to dispose a flare properly.
AntarcticPilot
Well-Known Member
It wasn't identified as a flare until after the response had started. So the response was for an unidentified suspicious device.
awol
Well-Known Member
So would we be doing the emergency services a big favour if we gave them the opportunity to identify and deal with discarded flares on more occasions?
penberth3
Well-Known Member
Exactly - and "flares" can be a lot bigger than the hand-held variety.
[3889]
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Absolutely. I dealt with a Helo smoke flare, about the size of a 50l drum, in a bin wagon in Liverpool city centre. Should I have evacuated 10,000 people? I thought not at the time and still do. If someone finds a 'suspicious' wheely bin does that justify bringing all surrounding activity to a halt on the basis it may be packed with C4?
[3889]
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My issue isn't with precautions taken by those dealing directly with the hazard. It is the wholly disproportionate response in closing a major motorway.
Stemar
Well-Known Member
If it was a hand-held, and immediately identifiable as such, the reaction is inappropriate, but a parachute flare zipping across a busy motorway could easily kill people. You or I would know the difference, but your average plod probably wouldn't. I certainly wouldn't have when I was a plod - I didn't know what a flare was until I started sailing.
I'd be interested to know who takes the decision. Is it Plod, before someone who knows what he's doing arrives, or is it the bloke who's going to deal with it? In either case, how much latitude do they have? Do they decide, or are there regulations they have to follow even though they're inappropriate for the particular situation?
I'd be interested to know who takes the decision. Is it Plod, before someone who knows what he's doing arrives, or is it the bloke who's going to deal with it? In either case, how much latitude do they have? Do they decide, or are there regulations they have to follow even though they're inappropriate for the particular situation?
[3889]
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In my experience it is the most risk averse individual who drives the decision making process. If a firefighter suggests to a watch commander that the motorway should be closed, and the WC is perhaps not as confident as they should be, then the motorway will close. Once a critical mass of two over-anxious people are in agreement, however junior, then the original decision is hardly ever reversed. Hence no flights across Europe during the ash cloud and the decades long ban on mobile phones in hospitals.
There are certain scenarios for which protocols exist, e.g. 100 m exclusion zone and 24 hours of cooling for a shocked acetylene cylinder, but generally it's down to whoever's on the ground to judge.
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