Another option for fire extinguishers

[greeny]

I've just been reading about these extinguishers and they seem ideally suited to the boat situation. Maybe not accepted by insurance companies but would solve many of the issues of dry powder and CO2 in the confined space of a boat cabin or engine compartment. Apologies if they've been discussed before but they're new to me.
Fire Safety Stick fire extinguisher

 

[westernman]

I've just been reading about these extinguishers and they seem ideally suited to the boat situation. Maybe not accepted by insurance companies but would solve many of the issues of dry powder and CO2 in the confined space of a boat cabin or engine compartment. Apologies if they've been discussed before but they're new to me.
Fire Safety Stick fire extinguisher

I have never come across them before either.
They look very good. May be too good to believe??

 

[greeny]

I have never come across them before either.
They look very good. May be too good to believe??

Maybe but got to be worth a shot if you have an engine fire. At least it wouldn't screw up a running engine like dry powder or completely fill the cabin with powder or co2 that can cause breathing issues and/or bad visibility.

 

[Graham376]

They do look good but only problem where you and I sail is we will still have to carry dry powder (serviced annually) as well.

 

[Roberto]

Their web site says "All new"... well they have been available for years, original trade name "Mangiafuoco". I have no place for an automatic CO2 extinguisher in my engine room so I keep a couple of those sticks nearby.
I have tried one (voluntarily) on an open air domestic fire and it seemed quite effective, so far happily no idea about an enclosed engine locker fire.

 

[sarabande]

It really would be worth reading the FAQs on their website very carefully indeed.

FAQs | Fire Safety Stick


I'm not going to take the Qs and answers to pieces in public, but have a careful scientific read of what they say. I would never use one of these on a boat.

They have been discussed previously on the forum.

 

[jlavery]

Looks intriguing, but the FAQ seems waffling pseudo science.

Odd that I can't find any independent test or review by an accredited authority (e.g. UK Fire Service). Anyone else had any success?

 

[Boathook]

I've replaced my fire extinguishers with Firexo watermist ones ( https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B08MR2G84X/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1 ) after the surveyor felt the powder had gone 'solid'. They were over 10 years old but the pressure gauge was still in the green and I did occasionally shake them. One problem is that the 2 litre watermist is quite a bit bigger than a 2kg powder and I'm struggling to mount one in a sensible location.
This was always the problem we had with powder extinguishers in vans years ago at work so I wasn't surprised by the surveyors comments.

 

[Pompette]

According to their website, the Fire Sticks are in use with Kent Fire & Rescue so they can't be all that bad surely?

 

[The Q]

But are they approved by insurance companies? There's no note of the on the boat safety scheme so I'd still have to carry conventional extinguishers.

 

[Neeves]

But are they approved by insurance companies? There's no note of the on the boat safety scheme so I'd still have to carry conventional extinguishers.

If they work - why not.

Fire extinguishers are hardly expensive. There is no reason not to carry more than required nor carrying extra of a different type/character. With 2 hulls we always had extra extinguishers and always carried parachute flares and always used 2 tethers per person.

Requirements are a minimum, there are no restrictions on exceeding minimums.

Like flares, LJ, LR (MOB equipment and practices) - most are never used in anger - but if you do need them - you (and others) would be very grateful.

You are the skipper - you are responsible

My father spent 36 hours in a LR.

When you think of the bottom line - most bits of kit cost much the same as a decent bottle of malt whisky. We did have a genuine MOB, with a happy ending - I shudder how lucky I was, as skipper.

Jonathan

 

[Clancy Moped]

We have 2 in our property, hopefully I won't have to give any reviews.

 

[Bouba]

How much do they cost and where can you purchase them from ?

 

[Stemar]

How much do they cost and where can you purchase them from ?

Force 4, among others.


No, they aren't cheap, but with a theoretically indefinite shelf life (their FAQs suggest 15 years), I must say I'm tempted. However, I've got a few powder extinguishers, and the last one of those that I dumped, I let it off into the dustbin and it worked fine, in spite of being nearly 30 years old, so I think I'm OK for now.

I'm not going to take the Qs and answers to pieces in public, but have a careful scientific read of what they say. I would never use one of these on a boat.

Well, I read through them and didn't see anything untoward. What did I miss?

 

[sarabande]

A sample:_

"Is the gas safe to breathe?​

Yes, the Fire Safety Stick discharge is safe to breathe and is both non-corrosive and non-toxic. So it’s fine around children and pets too. General safe practices are always recommended. Although the FSS acts by removing the oxygen, it does this at the flame level, interrupting the chain of combustion (fire triangle – Heat/Fuel/Oxygen).

But, it does not remove the local oxygen levels that would prevent breathing as some traditional extinguishers did (eg the banned Halon type). However, we would not recommend having the discharge aimed at a person’s face for period of time."


They claim it removes oxygen at the flame level (by substituting their gas for ambient air ?) and then that it does not remove the local oxygen levels (whatever that means).

Their extinguisher generates (with the aid of an endothermic reaction, complete with a flame if you look at the video) a gas which surrounds the flame front and pushes away the oxygen, so the fire goes out. No mention of reducing the heat from the fire triangle (as e.g. cO2 and watermist extinguishers do) , so I would expect that re-ignition might take place when the gas dissipates or blows away.


We need PyroJames who is a professional at this to comment.

 

[Bouba]

Does it work outdoors in the wind ?

 

[sarabande]

There are comments that the devices "have the UKCA mark of approval".

I've spent a few minutes ferreting round and would suggest that the "certificates" page

Certifications | Fire Safety Stick

needs further interpretation and explanation. IMHO it looks as if the pages just state that the devices have been checked in Italy and Australia for various approval processes.

I note that the BSI Verification Certificate for the Australian (FireStryker) device appears to be about to expire on 21 Sep 2023, and contains this sentence:-

"The issue of this certificate does not indicate any measure of Approval, Certification, Supervision, Control or Surveillance by BSI of any related product."

 

[Bouba]

The real problem, as stated earlier, is that regular pressurized fire extinguisher are compulsory...and the real expense and huge inconvenience is the regular checkups they require. I like the sound of these fire sticks.....would they work on an ev fire ?

 

[thinwater]

A sample:_

"Is the gas safe to breathe?​

Yes, the Fire Safety Stick discharge is safe to breathe and is both non-corrosive and non-toxic. So it’s fine around children and pets too. General safe practices are always recommended. Although the FSS acts by removing the oxygen, it does this at the flame level, interrupting the chain of combustion (fire triangle – Heat/Fuel/Oxygen).

But, it does not remove the local oxygen levels that would prevent breathing as some traditional extinguishers did (eg the banned Halon type). However, we would not recommend having the discharge aimed at a person’s face for period of time."


They claim it removes oxygen at the flame level (by substituting their gas for ambient air ?) and then that it does not remove the local oxygen levels (whatever that means).

Their extinguisher generates (with the aid of an endothermic reaction, complete with a flame if you look at the video) a gas which surrounds the flame front and pushes away the oxygen, so the fire goes out. No mention of reducing the heat from the fire triangle (as e.g. cO2 and watermist extinguishers do) , so I would expect that re-ignition might take place when the gas dissipates or blows away.


We need PyroJames who is a professional at this to comment.

HOT AEROSOL FIRE EXTINGUISHING AGENTS AND THE ASSOCIATED TECHNOLOGIES: A REVIEWThis is not quite how they work. You can Google the actual process.

Pyrotecnic extinguishers have been around for decades, perhaps on 10 years at the retail level, and they do have some minuses.

• Only one go at it. Once lit it just runs.
• Not UL listed. Some EU approvals.
• Ohher down sides include the fire in the unit and corrosion. See CA evaluation. https://uwspace.uwaterloo.ca/bitstream/handle/10012/10237/Topic_Alen.pdf?isAllowed=y&sequence=3
• Health hazards of small particles not well known ... but no horror stories either, except in very confined settings where any tech would have been lethal. HOT AEROSOL FIRE EXTINGUISHING AGENTS AND THE ASSOCIATED TECHNOLOGIES: A REVIEW

I have tested them. I can see the application for safety crews, who can carry one on their belt. But I have no opinion on boats.

 

[westernman]

The real problem, as stated earlier, is that regular pressurized fire extinguisher are compulsory...and the real expense and huge inconvenience is the regular checkups they require. I like the sound of these fire sticks.....would they work on an ev fire ?

Yes. But not on Teslas.