Another Brick in the Wall.

[syvictoria]

( no apologies req , thank you for the information ) ,, just to make it clear for me , if one stays ( within Schengen ) the full 90 days then one must exit ( the Schengen area ) for another full 90 days , or duck and dive in and out for the required average ( totals ) time . ? i guess Morroco and Tunisia are going to get busy !!

Yes.

 

[cherod]

, yes indeed , essentially one must spend half of the time out of europe ,, that makes it a bit tight on a trip down from the UK to the next non Sch area which is Morocco if one wishes to take some time and stop off in Fr, Iberia etc . wintering over in either would then be unlawfull . i guess this is why all the rush for residency in Sp or Po , presumably with either one can then roam Sch Europe at will ..

 

[syvictoria]

, yes indeed , essentially one must spend half of the time out of europe ,, that makes it a bit tight on a trip down from the UK to the next non Sch area which is Morocco if one wishes to take some time and stop off in Fr, Iberia etc . wintering over in either would then be unlawfull . i guess this is why all the rush for residency in Sp or Po , presumably with either one can then roam Sch Europe at will ..

No. Sorry, more bad news! Residency does not give you the right of freedom of movement - only citizenship (a passport) does. Residency just removes time restrictions for the single country of residency.

It's even worse perhaps if you plan to cruise the Baltic/northern Europe, as there is no N Africa to visit... just Russia!

 

[cherod]

No. Sorry, more bad news! Residency does not give you the right of freedom of movement - only citizenship (a passport) does. Residency just removes time restrictions for the single country of residency.

It's even worse perhaps if you plan to cruise the Baltic/northern Europe, as there is no N Africa to visit... just Russia!

having been there once and loved it , that has been a consideration and would have ( i hope ) no prob with Rusky land, but a winter over in the Baltic could be a bit , well " Baltic " .

 

[syvictoria]

having been there once and loved it , that has been a consideration and would have ( i hope ) no prob with Rusky land, but a winter over in the Baltic could be a bit , well " Baltic " .

That's good to hear, as we are northbound at present, with no fixed plans. Winter will definitely be back in the UK however!

 

[cherod]

( thank you SYV ) ,, so if one is on route and , lets suppose , ones engine were to pack up on lets say the Po coast and an extended stay was forced for repairs and a temp residency was aquired ( for extended stay ) then if one remained for more than 90 days would one have to head for a non Sch area on leaving or would one then be back to a zero count ??

 

[syvictoria]

( thank you SYV ) ,, so if one is on route and , lets suppose , ones engine were to pack up on lets say the Po coast and an extended stay was forced for repairs and a temp residency was aquired ( for extended stay ) then if one remained for more than 90 days would one have to head for a non Sch area on leaving or would one then be back to a zero count ??

I think your 'clock' would be reset. 90 days in France/Spain (Schengen rules), followed by 90 days in Portugal (as a resident), followed by a further 90 days in Spain (Schengen rules again) should, to my knowledge, satisfy the rules.

 

[cherod]

I think your 'clock' would be reset. 90 days in France/Spain (Schengen rules), followed by 90 days in Portugal (as a resident), followed by a further 90 days in Spain (Schengen rules again) should, to my knowledge, satisfy the rules.

ty again ,, just thinking ,, will Gibralter not be exiting the EU on the fateful day so therefor would count as a non Schengen re the 90 / 90 day issue ,, save a trip over to |africa ?

 

[stranded]

ty again ,, just thinking ,, will Gibralter not be exiting the EU on the fateful day so therefor would count as a non Schengen re the 90 / 90 day issue ,, save a trip over to |africa ?

Africa is much nicer!

 

[Graham376]

I think your 'clock' would be reset. 90 days in France/Spain (Schengen rules), followed by 90 days in Portugal (as a resident), followed by a further 90 days in Spain (Schengen rules again) should, to my knowledge, satisfy the rules.

I think cherod is looking ahead to maybe next year and by then we will be third country citizens with no right to temporary residence anywhere in EU. Third country citizens can "I think" obtain extended stay visas under some circumstances.

 

[cherod]

Africa is much nicer!

it may be and a lot cheaper ,, but ?

 

[syvictoria]

ty again ,, just thinking ,, will Gibralter not be exiting the EU on the fateful day so therefor would count as a non Schengen re the 90 / 90 day issue ,, save a trip over to |africa ?

I'm not sure that there's a definitive consensus on that yet...?

I think cherod is looking ahead to maybe next year and by then we will be third country citizens with no right to temporary residence anywhere in EU. Third country citizens can "I think" obtain extended stay visas under some circumstances.

Yes, my mistake. Residency would be a far more complicated process for a third country citizen (at least as per my limited knowledge in Italy). But longer 'short' term visas should hopefully be an option. Other posts also suggest that it may still be possible to obtain Portuguese residency before 1/1/21 if one is quick!

Even though I have given this SO much thought in recent years/months, I still find myself forgetting how parts of the changes ahead will affect me, even if only briefly. It's surprisingly hard to re-programme your brain about a situation when it's all you have ever known!

 

[Graham376]

I may have misunderstood you, but a citizen isn't necessarily a resident. I suspect that the majority of dual passport holders aren't resident in both (or more) states for which they hold a passport. Citizenship is more often a birthright.

Agree, my wife took up British Citizenship in 1971 along with passport. She was still also a Portuguese citizen but after her passport expired, she had no identity or residency documents because she didn't live there so, just a UK tourist. Fast forward some years to when her father became terminally ill and she had to be involved with "officialdom", it became necessary to renew all her citizen documents.

 

[cherod]

mmmm ,, interesting , hopefully not too difficult , times ahead ,,,much is still speculation , guess January will be a busy month !!

 

[Graham376]

Other posts also suggest that it may still be possible to obtain Portuguese residency before 1/1/21 if one is quick!

Getting residency application in before 31/12 is the criteria and in some areas with a backlog, it may be 2021 before being interviewed. The main stumbling block is being able to prove address if boat isn't there to live on.

It's only a stop-gap solution for many who've been granted temporary residence as they will will lose it at the end of the five years when they can't prove they have met the five years of 183 days in country rule and become settled.

 

[Tony Cross]

??????!!!!!!

The EU has full freedom of movement for people who are citizen's of any one of it's states. Under those rules, after 6 months straight in any one country, you are supposed to apply for residency there. However, there is nothing stopping you from moving on to another country and spending 6 months there. This is the fantastic freedom that we (UK citizens) lose (or give away, depending upon your POV) on 1/1/21.

There has never been (to my knowledge) a 180/360 rule for UK citizens. Whilst that prospect is inferior to what we have now, it would be far superior to what we will have from January (as it stands and without any deal agreeing otherwise)!

Not quite. One must register one's presence in the country after 90 days. That's not quite the same as applying for residence. EU citizens don't need to apply for residence in another EU country in the same way that nationals from a third country do, they just need to register their presence.

 

[cherod]

Getting residency application in before 31/12 is the criteria and in some areas with a backlog, it may be 2021 before being interviewed. The main stumbling block is being able to prove address if boat isn't there to live on.

It's only a stop-gap solution for many who've been granted temporary residence as they will will lose it at the end of the five years when they can't prove they have met the five years of 183 days in country rule and become settled.

so those wishing to stay over for short ( ish ) periods on their boat might be ok ?

 

[syvictoria]

Not quite. One must register one's presence in the country after 90 days. That's not quite the same as applying for residence. EU citizens don't need to apply for residence in another EU country in the same way that nationals from a third country do, they just need to register their presence.

I'm happy to be proved wrong, but I thought that (as it stands now) once you exceeded something like 183 days, you had to make an application for residency? It's at that point that the 'host' country potentially becomes interested in your tax affairs! It's also the same point when foreign cars need to be imported, etc.

I'm not denying the 90 day report at a police station thing. I wonder how many do actually do that? Certainly in my limited experience (Italy again), not many!

 

[syvictoria]

Something went wrong there! Duplicate post...

 

[syvictoria]

so those wishing to stay over for short ( ish ) periods on their boat might be ok ?

If I understand you correctly, from next year, no, not without residency, an EU passport or a (currently unknown?) visa.