Angled Sidedecks

[lustyd]

A s/s rod from the rigging intrudes into the saloon
Saloon cushions are retained by velcro instead of a substantial fiddle

If that's your list, I think you're doing quite well. None of those are unreasonable choices in my opinion

 

[johnalison]

If that's your list, I think you're doing quite well. None of those are unreasonable choices in my opinion

My friend’s boat is a perfectly good boat, but HRs of that period have interiors that lack the, possibly old-fashioned, charm that all earlier ones had, as HR were clearly economising in certain ways. Their seat cushions are inclined to shuffle around and have to be repeatedly pushed back into position, for example. The rigging intrusion is purely an aesthetic problem, but I find it distracting when I visit them.

 

[SaltyC]

John, I am of an age to completely agree,comfort and seakindliness come before speed. Unfortuanetly I feel, HR's have persued cost reduction with increased Volume and off wind performance above the old sea kindliness.

If one looks at a 34, 342 and latterly the 340 externally the bloated coachroof for increased accomodation is reminiscent of BenJenBav.

I will now put on my Tin hat and prepare for the incoming missiles.

 

[srm]

Years ago in Denmark we moored near a big old HR (sorry not in to HR models and variants). The owner proudly stated that his old boat was a lot better than the modern HRs.

 

[johnalison]

Years ago in Denmark we moored near a big old HR (sorry not in to HR models and variants). The owner proudly stated that his old boat was a lot better than the modern HRs.

We all say that, as do my predecessors. It’s a sort of game we play to annoy the newcomers. Older HRs were good in their time but lacked sailing performance compared to my Frers generation. In the other hand, I gather the earlier forest-grown teak may have been better than my plantation stuff. New boats seem a bit sporty for what I see as their traditional place as a retirement cruiser, but they seem to satisfy the market and many will like their bright interiors. I don’t think these changes are restricted to HR and are in line with what both quality boats and mass-produced ones are doing.

 

[dunedin]

John, I am of an age to completely agree,comfort and seakindliness come before speed. Unfortuanetly I feel, HR's have persued cost reduction with increased Volume and off wind performance above the old sea kindliness.

If one looks at a 34, 342 and latterly the 340 externally the bloated coachroof for increased accomodation is reminiscent of BenJenBav.

I will now put on my Tin hat and prepare for the incoming missiles.

HR know their market and who buys new boats.
To my mind the 342 was a massive improvement over the older models, and indeed a few years back I put in an offer on a 372 which was even better (the unrealistic owner refused my offer as too low, but ended up selling 16 months later for much less than my generous offer).

 

[johnalison]

HR know their market and who buys new boats.
To my mind the 342 was a massive improvement over the older models, and indeed a few years back I put in an offer on a 372 which was even better (the unrealistic owner refused my offer as too low, but ended up selling 16 months later for much less than my generous offer).

The 342 was certainly a major break with previous designs, but, as I have suggested, it wasn’t a massive all-round improvement from the 34. It is a livelier boat but not better or even faster on all points of sail, though slightly more generous in accommodation but with some losses. We raced against some 372s once and sometimes beat them to the windward mark. We also cruised in company with German 372 owners and they certainly drew well ahead downwind on a long sail. Their only problem was that they had left a hatch open on the boisterous sail and quite a lot of their bedding was wet. In some ways, I thought the 36 was the classic; not the fastest but good enough and the most snug.

 

[lustyd]

I don’t think these changes are restricted to HR and are in line with what both quality boats and mass-produced ones are doing

It’s funny that you classed them as retirement cruisers, although I don’t think that’s fair to the boats I think it’s also probably the reality for many. I think this is why my tongue in cheek comment about 20 years behind the curve is probably true. They are doing the exact same things as the mass producers but later and probably because their target market is a bit different. If you “build them like they used to” the retired market will want them and I’d never thought of it like that. Make them too modern and you’re in the mass market. From that perspective it’s probably good that you dislike some of the changes, and it’s handy that these boats don’t wear out so owners never have to “upgrade” to a newer generation if they don’t want to.

That’s helped me understand the brand quite a bit more

 

[Lucky Duck]

It’s funny that you classed them as retirement cruisers, although I don’t think that’s fair to the boats I think it’s also probably the reality for many. I think this is why my tongue in cheek comment about 20 years behind the curve is probably true. They are doing the exact same things as the mass producers but later and probably because their target market is a bit different. If you “build them like they used to” the retired market will want them and I’d never thought of it like that. Make them too modern and you’re in the mass market. From that perspective it’s probably good that you dislike some of the changes, and it’s handy that these boats don’t wear out so owners never have to “upgrade” to a newer generation if they don’t want to.

That’s helped me understand the brand quite a bit more

“A gentleman’s retirement present” is a phrase I heard some time back but has stuck with me

 

[onesea]

Going back to angled side decks, I am indifferent. My last boat had them they worked well except.

The first time I stepped onboard as owner she tried to kill me.

Picture the seen a cold January in a northern port, I am down early to get ready for road transport south (it turned out quite affordable). There is a light frost, on the shore. The pontoon was frost free, the deck looked dull not shiney no hint of frost.

I step on board first leg over guard rail second leg over guard rail all seemed good. First step away from the shrouds my feet slip on the camber of the deck they are sheet ice. My ass hits the deck and I start sliding down the side deck gaining enough momentum for my bum to jump offer the aluminium toe rail.

I am stopped by an arm over the lower guard rail and hand on jib sheet block, feet not quite in the water. A little wiggling I go myself onboard I made my way gingerly to the cockpit.

After that if it was icy I was exceptionally cautious.

Normal sailing they where not a problem comfortable to sit on underway. In port it’s not somewhere I would sit so they didn’t bother me.

 

[johnalison]

It’s funny that you classed them as retirement cruisers, although I don’t think that’s fair to the boats I think it’s also probably the reality for many. I think this is why my tongue in cheek comment about 20 years behind the curve is probably true. They are doing the exact same things as the mass producers but later and probably because their target market is a bit different. If you “build them like they used to” the retired market will want them and I’d never thought of it like that. Make them too modern and you’re in the mass market. From that perspective it’s probably good that you dislike some of the changes, and it’s handy that these boats don’t wear out so owners never have to “upgrade” to a newer generation if they don’t want to.

That’s helped me understand the brand quite a bit more

I think it would be overstating it to say that I dislike the changes. I can see why they happen and admire them in some ways, and it may be that these builders are looking to appeal to a younger market. My retirement sailing included the Channel and Baltic and my preference was for a boat that would look after itself, so the later boats, with more exposed cockpits and less directional stability, and possibly earlier reefing might have been harder for us to enjoy as we got less fit. I don’t see the speed increases to be very significant, though I have no experience of the latest generation.

 

[lustyd]

Yes certainly makes sense. It's interesting that you say earlier reefing as our boat prefers to sail upright and I tend to think more in terms of later un-reefing I generally start more conservative as we get more speed that way, then shake out a reef if there's not enough wind

 

[johnalison]

Yes certainly makes sense. It's interesting that you say earlier reefing as our boat prefers to sail upright and I tend to think more in terms of later un-reefing I generally start more conservative as we get more speed that way, then shake out a reef if there's not enough wind

Quite the reverse for me. Reefing is no great hardship and I will happily set off with full sail in marginal conditions. With a 100% jib our ideal sailing wind to windward is with an apparent wind of 20 knots, with 18 feeling a bit tame, and the first reef coming at around 24, though a bit earlier in open water perhaps. Our hull is almost semicircular in cross-section and there is no obvious advantage in early reefing, in fact I have an aversion to wallowing when under-driven, unlike our Sadler 29 which preferred to be reefed early. This is a major contribution to relaxing cruising and is the result of good design and 40% ballast rather than lack of canvas.