Anchoring with a CQR
- Thread starter demonboy
- Start date
jimbaerselman
New member
Re: Curious.
What a lovely link!
It leaves one wondering why the Admiralty replaced their Fisherman anchors with stockless anchors, unless they accepted the great increase in weight needed as an acceptable penalty for ease of deployment and recovery.
What a lovely link!
It leaves one wondering why the Admiralty replaced their Fisherman anchors with stockless anchors, unless they accepted the great increase in weight needed as an acceptable penalty for ease of deployment and recovery.
GMac
New member
Re: Curious.
[ QUOTE ]
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written by someone who has never tried a new one, as there major big advantage is they do outset most others. It is well proven fact
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I risked my reputation last night by bringing up "the anchor question" in a well frequented yottie bar in Orhanyie, Turkey, with three fellow cruisers. We had three CQR's and one Bugel among us, which is a fairly typical population of cruising anchors in the Med. Our best estimate was that we had done something like 6000 anchoring days between us and we had collectively dragged 10 times. Now, are you going to tell us that another anchor design could have significantly (meaning enough to spend money) improved that performance?
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Hell no!
That is effectively a perfect anchoring record and unlikely to be ever improved on by anything.
The genuine Bugel is a known good setter anyway so dosen't count really. It's more a new generation anyway, some say the Mother of them all actually.
So no need to change. You have obviously found the key point to getting your anchors working better than others who use those and must have very well matched systems on the boats.
I always say, think system not just one component. Here is a perfect example why.
Sorry been away holidaying, on bloody land and with the kids as well. Hell of a week with no dingy to send them off in /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
written by someone who has never tried a new one, as there major big advantage is they do outset most others. It is well proven fact
[/ QUOTE ]
I risked my reputation last night by bringing up "the anchor question" in a well frequented yottie bar in Orhanyie, Turkey, with three fellow cruisers. We had three CQR's and one Bugel among us, which is a fairly typical population of cruising anchors in the Med. Our best estimate was that we had done something like 6000 anchoring days between us and we had collectively dragged 10 times. Now, are you going to tell us that another anchor design could have significantly (meaning enough to spend money) improved that performance?
[/ QUOTE ]
Hell no!
That is effectively a perfect anchoring record and unlikely to be ever improved on by anything.
The genuine Bugel is a known good setter anyway so dosen't count really. It's more a new generation anyway, some say the Mother of them all actually.
So no need to change. You have obviously found the key point to getting your anchors working better than others who use those and must have very well matched systems on the boats.
I always say, think system not just one component. Here is a perfect example why.
Sorry been away holidaying, on bloody land and with the kids as well. Hell of a week with no dingy to send them off in /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Richard10002
Well-known member
Re: Curious.
[ QUOTE ]
What you didn't mention was how many efforts it took to dig the anchors in each time. And this is the point of improvement claimed by modern anchors compared to older anchors.
I actually count failed 'sets' as drags . . . puts a different light on it?
As for dragging comparisons, my test bed was a fleet of 50 yachts mooring stern/bows to for an average of 120 days a year over 15 years. That's quite a bit of hooking. Anchor set was checked by nervous flotilla leaders. Need to re-set was common with CQR and Bruce, rare with flat anchors.
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having only started overnight anchoring recently, here is my record with my 45lb plough:
7 nights at anchor
4 nights in sand, 3 nights in sand/weed
21 attempts to set
4 successful sets, (in sand)
2 nights where it wasnt set, but conditions were ok to risk it
1 night where it held 1500 revs in astern, but had dragged in the morning.
Conclusion: My plough sets fine in sand, and is useless in weed.
I count all the failures as failures, and as good as drags - definitely a major PIA.
I guess, if I never tried to anchor in weed again, the plough would record near perfect results, but I will be severely restricted, so it's going to go.
[ QUOTE ]
What you didn't mention was how many efforts it took to dig the anchors in each time. And this is the point of improvement claimed by modern anchors compared to older anchors.
I actually count failed 'sets' as drags . . . puts a different light on it?
As for dragging comparisons, my test bed was a fleet of 50 yachts mooring stern/bows to for an average of 120 days a year over 15 years. That's quite a bit of hooking. Anchor set was checked by nervous flotilla leaders. Need to re-set was common with CQR and Bruce, rare with flat anchors.
[/ QUOTE ]
having only started overnight anchoring recently, here is my record with my 45lb plough:
7 nights at anchor
4 nights in sand, 3 nights in sand/weed
21 attempts to set
4 successful sets, (in sand)
2 nights where it wasnt set, but conditions were ok to risk it
1 night where it held 1500 revs in astern, but had dragged in the morning.
Conclusion: My plough sets fine in sand, and is useless in weed.
I count all the failures as failures, and as good as drags - definitely a major PIA.
I guess, if I never tried to anchor in weed again, the plough would record near perfect results, but I will be severely restricted, so it's going to go.
Sadlermike
Member
Re: Curious.
I have layed to anchor (on average) 320 nights per year for the past 12 years. I have a 32 ft yacht, 35 lb CQR on 60 metres of 10 mm chain. I have dragged five times. I can see no pattern to the drags. The two worst occasions have been after being on the anchor without any problems during serious blows (F8 and 9) and the wind falling lighter (on one occasion after two days, the other after 36hrs) but without changing direction. On both occasions I dragged when the wind dropped to F3-4 and when I had assumed that my problems were over. I am sure there is an explanation for this but I cannot think of one.
I have layed to anchor (on average) 320 nights per year for the past 12 years. I have a 32 ft yacht, 35 lb CQR on 60 metres of 10 mm chain. I have dragged five times. I can see no pattern to the drags. The two worst occasions have been after being on the anchor without any problems during serious blows (F8 and 9) and the wind falling lighter (on one occasion after two days, the other after 36hrs) but without changing direction. On both occasions I dragged when the wind dropped to F3-4 and when I had assumed that my problems were over. I am sure there is an explanation for this but I cannot think of one.
craigsmith
Member
Re: Curious.
[ QUOTE ]
Conclusion: My plough sets fine in sand, and is useless in weed.
I count all the failures as failures, and as good as drags - definitely a major PIA.
[/ QUOTE ]You're not alone.
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/cruising/3...html#post166644
[ QUOTE ]
Conclusion: My plough sets fine in sand, and is useless in weed.
I count all the failures as failures, and as good as drags - definitely a major PIA.
[/ QUOTE ]You're not alone.
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/cruising/3...html#post166644
LadyJessie
New member
Re: Curious.
Thanks Gmac, you seem to understand the real issues for cruising people. Thanks for your honesty!
Thanks Gmac, you seem to understand the real issues for cruising people. Thanks for your honesty!
GMac
New member
Re: Curious.
[ QUOTE ]
Thanks Gmac, you seem to understand the real issues for cruising people. Thanks for your honesty!
[/ QUOTE ]
It helps having done 30K odd + miles myself in many boats in many places. Also I actively hunt feedback from my customers (now being a bit more land based for a wee while but not much longer) and do take a, some say too weird, fascination with anchors. I'm not coming from a sales point of view, as you will notice by my well kept anonymity, I'm here to learn just like most others.
Not to mention being another tight arsed yachty I also run a why spend if no gain programme. Before anyone get too excited, yachties are a bloody tight bunch, I know I am one and deal with many /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif Maybe the MOBO's have developed a thicker skin from watching the numbers fly around when filling their tanks /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
[ QUOTE ]
Thanks Gmac, you seem to understand the real issues for cruising people. Thanks for your honesty!
[/ QUOTE ]
It helps having done 30K odd + miles myself in many boats in many places. Also I actively hunt feedback from my customers (now being a bit more land based for a wee while but not much longer) and do take a, some say too weird, fascination with anchors. I'm not coming from a sales point of view, as you will notice by my well kept anonymity, I'm here to learn just like most others.
Not to mention being another tight arsed yachty I also run a why spend if no gain programme. Before anyone get too excited, yachties are a bloody tight bunch, I know I am one and deal with many /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif Maybe the MOBO's have developed a thicker skin from watching the numbers fly around when filling their tanks /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
ccscott49
Active member
Re: Curious.
I would like to go the "new generation" way, but none of these type anchors will fit in my hawse, not in the weight I would want anyway, nothing short of 100lbs.
The shanks on these are just too wide (thick) to fit inside the hawse and not jam.
I now need a new anchor as my 120lb fob has bent!! I could repair it and modify it for more tip weight and with a bar to stop it rotating, which is what I think bent it in the first place. But why do I have to modify it!
I must not be the only guy with an anchor in hawse, so what do we do?
I guess we just dont go to sleep when anchored and a blow is forecast!
By the way, I've had halls pattern, CQR, danforth, fob. Plus I've dragged all of them all over the bloody ballearics!
I would like to go the "new generation" way, but none of these type anchors will fit in my hawse, not in the weight I would want anyway, nothing short of 100lbs.
The shanks on these are just too wide (thick) to fit inside the hawse and not jam.
I now need a new anchor as my 120lb fob has bent!! I could repair it and modify it for more tip weight and with a bar to stop it rotating, which is what I think bent it in the first place. But why do I have to modify it!
I must not be the only guy with an anchor in hawse, so what do we do?
I guess we just dont go to sleep when anchored and a blow is forecast!
By the way, I've had halls pattern, CQR, danforth, fob. Plus I've dragged all of them all over the bloody ballearics!
craigsmith
Member
Re: Curious.
Can you install a bow roller?
(Might sound silly but hawse pipes just aren't sensible these days on small boats...)
If your FOB is 120lb I'll warrant your boat is a bit smaller than this, and note what the new addition, not to mention an upcoming bow-roller installation, is replacing here:
Failing that, why not buy a Buegel, or get one made? (Straight shank). (We could even make you a Rocna with a straight shank, although the issue is with getting the anchor to come home the "right" way - however I note you mentioned a CQR, so if that worked, you should be okay).
Can you install a bow roller?
(Might sound silly but hawse pipes just aren't sensible these days on small boats...)
If your FOB is 120lb I'll warrant your boat is a bit smaller than this, and note what the new addition, not to mention an upcoming bow-roller installation, is replacing here:
Failing that, why not buy a Buegel, or get one made? (Straight shank). (We could even make you a Rocna with a straight shank, although the issue is with getting the anchor to come home the "right" way - however I note you mentioned a CQR, so if that worked, you should be okay).
ccscott49
Active member
Re: Curious.
No, my boat is about that size, 57' and 48 tons fully laden, in fact that boat looks a bit like Englander.
By the way, my mistake, the FOB is 160lb, on 200' of 5/8 chain, the CQR was 95lb and the halls (which I still have) is 150lb. I also carry two CQR's of 85lb each as kedges.
Doesn't matter which way round the anchor comes up, theres a large stainless plate on the bow, which it would hit no matter where it came up.
Bow roller? Just not possible or for that matter desired on on boat like mine.
Also mine is a single centre hawse, not double like her.
I will investigate and get some more dimensions of these anchors, you mention and see what can be done.
Anywhere I can get actual dimensions?
No, my boat is about that size, 57' and 48 tons fully laden, in fact that boat looks a bit like Englander.
By the way, my mistake, the FOB is 160lb, on 200' of 5/8 chain, the CQR was 95lb and the halls (which I still have) is 150lb. I also carry two CQR's of 85lb each as kedges.
Doesn't matter which way round the anchor comes up, theres a large stainless plate on the bow, which it would hit no matter where it came up.
Bow roller? Just not possible or for that matter desired on on boat like mine.
Also mine is a single centre hawse, not double like her.
I will investigate and get some more dimensions of these anchors, you mention and see what can be done.
Anywhere I can get actual dimensions?
