Anchoring with a CQR

[demonboy]

Having recently hooked up with Lady Jessie for a coffee the subject of anchoring came up. He simply asked us how our CQR was and we simply replied 'fine, no problem'.

So, to stir things up a little amongst all you anchoring mentalists out there, this is our summary after spending our first two months or so at anchor in Turkey. Please note that these are the words of a newbie live-aboard. I welcome comments on the following points raised but I DON'T welcome sales pitches, charts and bitching. I'm really posting this up to help other newbies and those who are confused about all the anchoring posts on this forum and maybe, possibly maybe, though doubtful, put to bed some of the subjects that are continually argued about.

SPEC
We have an 18 ton 43ft (13m) ketch and a 20kg CQR. This is the correct and recommended CQR for our size boat, despite a number of people telling us this is under sized (check the CQR website). In fact this is the top-end recommended size.

WEATHER
Some of our anchoring is done in winds of 20knots plus, some of it in calm weather. Some of it has been in sloppy/choppy water, some in flat water.

SEABED
Some of the anchoring is done in sand/weed, some in weed and some in sand/weed/rock and sometimes mud thrown in too.

TIDES
No tides here so can't comment on that though we often wake up in the morning facing the opposite direction that we anchored in, with the anchor having re-dug appropriately.

It is worth mentioning that I almost ALWAYS dive down with a mask and check the anchor after anchoring. This is as much to cool off in the blazing heat as it is to check the anchor!

CONCLUSION
We spend 99.99% of our time on the pick. The anchor has dragged once and that was in a weedy anchorage with very sloppy water. The depth was 6m and we had 20m chain out.

On the whole when we anchor the CQR digs in straight away and only on a couple of occasions have we had to try a couple of times. After diving down and checking the anchor it has moved about a foot, the length it takes for the CQR to plough in.

Our conclusion is thus, and this tallies with past threads on the subject:

1. SIZE/TECHNIQUE. Forget about SIZE of anchor, it has NOTHING to do with size. It is about technique. After a few early rubbish attempts we are now adept at anchoring and are fully confident with our CQR and its size and about our technique. We can tell if the anchor has bitten, even without throwing the engine into full reverse, though we do do this as well to make sure.

2. CHAIN LENGTH. I think it was Cunliffe who said that chain in the well not being used is a waste so put out as much as you can, or words to that effect. I would tend to agree: in 5m you can get away with 15m but I would prefer to put out 20 or 25m. This just helps take the strain off the anchor but it's worth mentioning that in tight anchorages the 3x rule works fine.

3. SEA BED. Weed alone is bad for a CQR but any combination of sea bed with weed hasn't been a problem. Maybe someone out there has good experience of anchoring in pure weed with a different anchor? I've heard the fishermans is the best for weed.

4. WEATHER. We have hung on the CQR in gusting 30kn+ all night without dragging once.

5. TIDE. Can't comment on this I'm afraid but sometimes the meltem (prevailing W/NW winds in Turkey) act as strongly as the tide and we swing round without a problem. The CQR has 're-dug' without dragging.

6. EXPERIENCE. We've only been anchoring for a couple of months and no doubt we are yet to experience some horrendous anchoring situations. Also we have ONLY been doing this in the Aegean. At the moment, however, we are quite happy to leave Esper at anchor for the whole day without a worry that she will drag. As long as the transits don't change after five minutes of setting the anchor we're happy.

Now that I've posted this we'll probably drag tonight /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[jerryat]

I agree with you. In respect of the CQR, and most other anchors in my experience, technique and PATIENCE is at least as important as anchor weight OR design.

I too, always dived on the anchor when in the Med/Caribbean - and for similar reasons to yours!!!

Seriously, I often see comments along the lines of 'the CQR doesn't dig in but just seems to lay on it's side'. In 34 years of offshore and ocean cruising, I think I've only seen our anchor completely under the seabed on two occasions - both after a day/night of F9-10 winds. Like you, if the anchor is both set and dug in properly, one can go ashore/to bed and forget it! We have a similar excellent experiences with our Bruce kedge and Fortress.

We've never had our anchor drag once dug in - yes, it has a few times when when first dropping it in the place we've selected, but then we winch it up and do it again - or again!

It all seems straightforward enough to us.

 

[KellysEye]

I agree with you too. The key to CQR's is to plough them in, do that and you don't have any problems. We use more scope than you, generally 5 times depth and then 7 times if it's 20 knots plus. In shallow water we use 10 times. We've only dragged once in three years and that was a thin sand over flat coral bottom which (IMO) no anchor would hold (I dived down to see what was going on). Needless to say we moved.

 

[catmandoo]

I agree with you although I am overanchored . 915 KG Brusc and CQR at bow and 12 Kg brittany at stern )
Spent one night with 25 plus knots on the nose off Sardinia with my CQR dug in and wind gusting plus schock waves from reflected heavy swell . Held all night .

Like other posters in other area only slipped due to bad technique in getting through weed and not checking holding at that time

 

[samwise]

We have been forced to sharpen up our anchoring skills now that we are in the Balearics and facing ascending marina prices as the season progresses.
We have switched our CQR to reserve bower and are using a Delta as the main. So far it hasn't dragged, although we did have a bit of a problem getting it to dig through the weed and we reset in a sand patch which was better.
The full reverse technique has to be done carefully otherwise you may pull the anchor out, but I do like to see that it has bitten well and the chain is straight.
Interestingly we were moored in Soller the other day, where the holding is average and a Brit flagged yacht barrelled in to the anchorage, stopped and the guy dumped anchor and what seemed to be the entire contents of his chain locker into the water in one go. The rust dust had barely cleared before he and his girlfriend were spread out sunbathing. I guess that's what you call mooring to piles (of chain). We noticed that he moved on into the marina before dusk!

 

[LadyJessie]

Re: Anchoring with a CQ

Thanks Demonboy: it is good to finally have some inputs on this anchoring subject from real cruisers as opposed to the marketing people, designers and the odd New Zeeland chandliers.

I think you are spot on in your observation that understanding the bottom area and anchor scope is more important than anchor design. Anchoring is an art in managing many aspects. Anyone telling you that one feature (anchor design) is a deciding factor is deluding you.

If you have been following these threads you will have noted that I have been accused of personal insult when I questioned if the statement from the designer of the Spade that this anchor will "set anywhere anytime" was really reasonable. My experience of real life anchoring did throw some doubts on this claim. But I did not have any real personal experience of these "new age design" anchors to check against my trusted CQR, so the claim that "if you have not tried them how can you discard them" had some validity. That is is not to say that my 1000+ anchoring with three drags is a not a sterling record for the CQR.

I have been actively looking for these "new anchors" to gain some experience but they are rarer that hen's teeth in the cruising community. Previously this season I had only found one Spade on a yacht moored in a marina and the owners absent so I could not gain any info. But finally, I lucked out: last week I was anchored in Pedi Bay on Symi Island in Greece and a British boat came in with a Spade anchor. This would finally be my experience of seeing these "new anchors" at work. Well, what happened was that the yacht dropped the anchor three times and it dragged. On the fourth drop it seemed to have caught and they settled in, only to be awakened by the end of the day gusts that dragged them away again. They then left the bay, probably cursing the person who had sold them this anchor on the promise that it would "set anywhere anytime". They had learned that there is no such thing. In real life there is soft mud, hard mud, weed, inclination, fish pots, mooring lines, bicycles, hard sand, rocks and all other sorts of bottom features to challenge your anchoring. Anchor design is most often not a solution to this.

I should not gloat, but I still have to add that while I was watching this yacht with a "new design anchor" unsuccessfully trying to anchor; I was hanging on my CQR that had plowed in at first try and held well in the subsequent 30 knots gusts. There is something to be said for "old and tested". It just works,

 

[silver-fox]

When powered ships were first built I seem to remember reading that arguments raged as to which was best, the propeller or the paddle steamer!

Tests were run by tying the two together stern-to -stern and seeing who won the tug of war. History records the propeller was proved the better design, even though the paddle steamers were more common and had proved themselves effective in many years service.

Similarly all independent, recent, comparative tests that I have seen, including the recent YM test show that there are several modern designs of anchor that dig in quicker and hold better than the CQR.

That Lady Jessie has anchored successfully 1000 times or a million times with a CQR neither proves nor disproves these test results, it just proves that:-

(a)You have followed good practice and your anchor has dug in successfully

and

(b) for the bottom the anchor has been in, you have not exceeded the capability of your anchor.

There is no need to get personal or suggest that Lady Jessie's experiences aren't valid, similarly there is so much evidence to show modern anchors are better there is no point in getting hot under the collar about that either!

Free choice is the name of the game and we each choose the what, where and when of anchoring for ourselves. In the final analysis as my old man used to say

"You make your bed and you lie on it"

 

[Metabarca]

Thank you for your useful post. Since you clearly have some experience of successfully getting your CQR to dig in, could you give us a detailed blow-by-blow account of your anchoring technique?

 

[Richard10002]

[ QUOTE ]
Thank you for your useful post. Since you clearly have some experience of successfully getting your CQR to dig in, could you give us a detailed blow-by-blow account of your anchoring technique?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes Please!

 

[mocruising]

I have to say that I agree with most of the stuff thats been said here in support of the CQR. Mine is 20 Kg on 100 m x 10 mm chain we have anchored many many times between the UK and Adriatic over the past 4 years in all conditions and we have rarely been let down. If push comes to shove we lay out the Fortress FX 55 on 10 m of 10mm chain and 24 mm octoplait. This is not because I don't have faith in the CQR but it stops the boat yawing about too much and I have always been a belt and braces type of seaman. The maximum wind conditions we have experienced was 50 kts which is no real test, I believe that 50 plus knots sorts the men from the boys, we experienced that on a CQR and 8mm chain in a Warrior 40 without a problem.

It makes me laugh when I observe mainly but not always charter boats drop their anchors of what ever type run out all their chain like a load of dog poo on the bottom and then jump in the dingy and go ashore.

 

[ChrisE]

In the interests of balance

We sail a ten ton Rival 38 and have slept at anchor for over 1000 nights over the past 12 years.

For the first 9 years this was on a 35 lb CQR which never dragged but sometimes never set especially on hard sand. When this happened we either got out a 10 kg Fortress or went elsewhere.

For the past 3 years, perhaps 100 nights, we have anchored with a 20 kg Spade which, too, has never dragged but has yet not to set.

All of the anchors have been subject to periods of 40knot plus winds.

I agree that most of anchoring is down to technique but not let's forget that the tools of the trade evolve over time.

 

[GMac]

Interesting comment there Jessie, one part is quite flawed but interesting all the same and proves a point I keep saying, there is nothing wrong with CQR's, a lot of anchors actually, if set-up well and used right.

 

[demonboy]

[ QUOTE ]
Thank you for your useful post. Since you clearly have some experience of successfully getting your CQR to dig in, could you give us a detailed blow-by-blow account of your anchoring technique?

[/ QUOTE ]

Can't work out if this is a sarcastic comment, so my apologies if it isn't! This is what we do:

1. Having found a spot look at the sea bottom, if possible, and if it's weedy, try and find a sandy patch.
2. Face into the wind (or tide if it's faster, though here in Turkey the tide is irrelevant)
3. Start to drop the anchor and ONLY start reversing once you think the anchor is almost touching the sea bed
4. Reverse about the same speed that the anchor chain is being let out (slowish reverse I guess), or maybe just a little bit faster, but not full reverse
5. If in 5m let out 20m, for example, and when finished letting out the chain keep the boat in reverse
6. If the anchor has dug in either the chain will stretch and the boat will straighten up or the chain will continue to be pulled out. Either way the anchor has bitten. To make sure just keep the boat in reverse a little longer to see what happens. As a previous poster said and to contradict what I may have said earlier DON'T put it in full reverse for ages because you will drag the anchor. Just reverse a little and watch that chain straighten. Now stop reversing.
7. Let out more chain if the anchorage allows. Lots of chain out isn't a bad thing (see note at bottom)
8. Now find a transit. A telegraph pole and a window on a house or a tree and a rock. If you use a tree or something where there are many of them make sure you remember which tree it is you used as your transit! DON'T use any object that can move and don't use an object on the boat like a stanchion.

Dunno if that helps but it's all about laying the anchor correctly and not letting the chain fall into a pile on top of the anchor.


Note: In a busy anchorage don't be selfish and let out loads of chain. Yesterday, shortly after starting this thread, a Turk came along side me and dumped 40m of chain out in a busy anchorage. I politely told him he had too much chain out and was too close but he insisted that by having loads of chain out (in 5m of water) he was fine. He went ashore for the day. Half an hour later I came up on deck to see his wooden trendil coming straight at Esper, bow-sprit about to rip out our awning! Liz and I had to fend this thing off and push it away for about 15 minutes as the wind continued to blow his boat onto ours. We eventually saw the guy returning, paddling like crazy, to get back to his boat and move it. I didn't say anything (but I do like being proved right!) but neither did he, which was a little frsutrating! Where was the apology?

On the same afternoon an Italian turned up in the anchorage and dumped his chain straight on top of an American's chain. When the American politely told him what he'd done, and then suggested an alternative place to anchor, the Italian slammed his ketch into full power, steamed out the anchorage, screaming and swearing at the American! Clearly his pride had been hurt and his machismo upset. We could see his wife screaming at him to stop being so rude and that they should go back and try again but the guy wasn't having any of it!!!!

S'larf innit /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[Metabarca]

"Can't work out if this is a sarcastic comment, so my apologies if it isn't!"

Not at all! And thanks for the rundown!

 

[KellysEye]

We set the anchor slightly differently from demonboy because it's always windy out here. We let out twice depth and fall back with the wind.

What we are trying to do is snub the anchor i.e. drag it to set. If the chain doesn't come up tight and pull the bows round we let out more chain slowly, about three metres at a time (subject to depth), until it does set (you can feel it). Then we let out our chain/depth ratio. By this time the boat is usually falling back quite fast, the boat rounds up really quickly and we don't always bother with the engine test.

When we dive on the anchor both flukes are buried and usually we have dragged it between two to ten feet to set it.

 

[Pye_End]

Thanks for posting your experiences.

Can you indicate how often whilst setting your anchor you find that it has not bitten and you decide to start all over again?

 

[AndrewB]

Curious.

[ QUOTE ]
Now that I've posted this we'll probably drag tonight /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

And did you?

 

[jimbaerselman]

Re: Anchoring with a CQ

[ QUOTE ]
last week I was anchored in Pedi Bay on Symi Island in Greece and a British boat came in with a Spade anchor. This would finally be my experience of seeing these "new anchors" at work. Well, what happened was that the yacht dropped the anchor three times and it dragged. On the fourth drop it seemed to have caught and they settled in, only to be awakened by the end of the day gusts that dragged them away again

[/ QUOTE ] I'm afraid this quote does not prove that modern anchors are prone to drag. What it proves is that the person anchoring was doing something wrong . . .

In sequence of probability:

1. He let out too little scope
2. He dropped a lot of chain on top of his anchor
3. He chose a patch of rock
4. His anchor was too small for the vessel

eliminate those variables before criticising the anchor

 

[cliff]

Re: Curious.

Isn't it nice to have a sensible anchor post without the usual sales pitch and "mine is better than yours" and "here is a chart to prove mine is better than everyone elses"?
--------------------

"Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity"
sailroom <span style="color:red">The place to auction your previously loved boatie bits</span>

 

[ChrisE]

Re: Curious.

I can only assume that they (anchor salesmen) are away on holiday, I just can't believe that they have given up!