Anchor woes

[zoidberg]

I'm more than a little pleased to be able to advise completion of my revised anchoring setup, with the delivery of a set of Crosby chain connectors and Green Pin shackles to complement the reel of hi-strength Grade 80 6mm proof-tested Crosby chain that turned up earlier.

This now permits me to ship my 2 Fortress Fx-16s with my Spade S80, each with its own length of chain and 150' rope-rode, ready for deployment each in its own tidy stowage bag. The setup is tested to 4.4T, with certification, and the chain is half the weight of my previous 10mm G30 stuff, while giving about the same strength. Given my 27' boat weighs in at about 3.5T, that's far more than is ever likely to be generated.

Essentially, I've reduced the weight of chain I have to carry, and haul back on board manually, by 1 kilo per metre. Which is, for an ould bugr, significant.

The astute and eagle-eyed will note the tiny locking pin is not yet inserted into the Crosby link, nor the wire-/cabletie-locking in place on the shackle pin - and also the polyprop bag which holds the disassembled anchor tidily when stowed.

I'm grateful to Jon Neeves for his guidance as 'anchoring guru' and for the bonnie lass at CWS Lifting who 'held my hand' through the procurement process.

 

[Tranona]

Well done. Good to see such thought going into the process rather than "big is best".Hopefully you will get to try it all out for real and report back.

 

[Neeves]

Well done. Good to see such thought going into the process rather than "big is best".Hopefully you will get to try it all out for real and report back.

And I hope you never have to test it to the limits - it will be fine but anchoring ' 'to the limits' is not relaxing.

And thank you for the kind words, unnecessary - but welcome.

Jonathan

 

[Neeves]

On a technical note.

Well done with your assembly

If you use the hammer in locking pins for the orange Crosby chain joiner they will become irretrievable, because you had to hammer them in and because they will corrode and lock solid. If you foresee the need to release these pins in the future (you could drill them out) then consider split pins (or those securement pins that look a bit like a Kirby grip). The disadvantage of split pins are they might catch on something, like you hands, in which case have a pair of robust gloves to hand.

I've never used the 'closed' chain joiner as you sourced from Crosby and have always used Omega links, which serve the self same purpose. I have no doubts about the Crosby link - only they are not common place to that design and its easier to source Omega links (from the same company Van Beest, but different Division, that make Green Pin shackles, under Van Beest's Excel range) .

This is a 6mm Omega link with 6mm chain and a (Peerlift) 3/8th" shackle of WLL 2t, secured with red Loctite. Note that the hammer in pins will be a devil to remove (but the Omega, like the Crosby link) is 'simply' a mechanism to allow a shackle of the correct strength to fit on the end or the rode. The hole in the chain link is simply too small for a 3/8th" shackle. The Omega is, in fact, made in France part of Van Beest's Excel range.

 

[tico]

Interesting. To me, the anchor shackle looks the wrong way round. By that I usually put the shackle pin through the anchor aperture rather than through the chain link.
Can't explain why, but any Comments?

 

[Farmer Piles]

Surely the end of the shackle pin would potentially snag and jam if it was the other way round? Having the rounded shackle the way it is would offer most freedom of movement.

 

[Supertramp]

Technical question as a Fortress user, is it OK to leave galvanised shackles and chain attached to the anchor, especially if it has to be stored salty and damp?

I freshwater wash my chain and locker in the marina but not when away.

Well done - I am contemplating a similar move from 10 to 8 when I replace my chain in due course.

 

[vyv_cox]

Technical question as a Fortress user, is it OK to leave galvanised shackles and chain attached to the anchor, especially if it has to be stored salty and damp?

I freshwater wash my chain and locker in the marina but not when away.

Well done - I am contemplating a similar move from 10 to 8 when I replace my chain in due course.

That's a very interesting question. Assuming the connection between the components remains wet, we would need to know where the alloy from which Fortress are built sits in the galvanic series. I found this but no values are given.


Fortress anchors are apparently an aluminium/magnesium alloy, 5xxx series. We can only guess what form of tempering they use but H16 seems likely, a strain hardened rather than thermal hardening process that would be appropriate in rolled sheet material. H16 is stronger than H32, all of which leads to the conclusion that the
material is relatively cathodic.

While zinc remains on your shackle and chain it will protect the anchor, assuming good electrical contact. Once all the zinc has been lost the anchor will be anodic to the steel but not excessively so, in which case corrosion should be slow.

I use a Wichard stainless steel shackle on my Fortress, with a rope rode on a plastic thimble. It is well over 20 years old with no sign of corrosion.

 

[boomerangben]

Looks very professional and makes perfect sense.

A couple of questions:
1. We always used bolt type shackles offshore, mainly because the ease of doing them up (no shackle key/spanner needed and also allow the pin to rotate and therefore no undoing tendency. If I would be swapping anchors regularly, I would go for a bolt type with some form of circular locking pin, or a SS carabiner.

2. What is the load test of your cleat? I would have thought that for a well found boat with well designed mooring cleats, it’s pointless making your anchor ride stronger than the cleat. I very much doubt you would like to hang 4 tonnes from your bow cleat. When your new rode wears out, could you go 6mm G70 saving even more weight?

 

[zoidberg]

The reason I've gone for shackles rather than, say, hammerlock connectors is that I expect to stow the anchors with chain detached. Certainly, there are arguments in favour of more suitable shackles - and I'm open to those.

I'm also 'beefing up' my original mooring cleats considerably. It's been my experience that many boats have mooring fittings which are barely adequate, and even more which are inadequate.

 

[Supertramp]

That's a very interesting question. Assuming the connection between the components remains wet, we would need to know where the alloy from which Fortress are built sits in the galvanic series. I found this but no values are given.
View attachment 174003

Fortress anchors are apparently an aluminium/magnesium alloy, 5xxx series. We can only guess what form of tempering they use but H16 seems likely, a strain hardened rather than thermal hardening process that would be appropriate in rolled sheet material. H16 is stronger than H32, all of which leads to the conclusion that the
material is relatively cathodic.

While zinc remains on your shackle and chain it will protect the anchor, assuming good electrical contact. Once all the zinc has been lost the anchor will be anodic to the steel but not excessively so, in which case corrosion should be slow.

I use a Wichard stainless steel shackle on my Fortress, with a rope rode on a plastic thimble. It is well over 20 years old with no sign of corrosion.

Thanks, I will follow your practice and use a stainless shackle to the chain on the Fortress. I will at least be easier to attach/detach.

Boomerang Ben - I'm pretty certain 6mm G70 will do but it feels like a huge psychological jump on a boat where everything is oversized! Except as you point out the mooring cleats. I sometimes think they are deliberately made small and with inadequate backing so that damage is restricted in the event of an incident. When the load is horizontal I suspect they can take a lot more load than if it pulls upwards slightly. I use a V bridle to two foredeck cleats and a long V bridle to my midships cleats in strong winds to reduce snatch loads.

 

[boomerangben]

I think it’s interesting the juxtaposition of psychological confidence that size brings vs the engineered solution for anchoring.

I can’t forget Neeve’s experience of (IIRC) 600kg rode load being enough to curtail further testing on an almost inelastic all chain rode. If you experience that big a load, you’re not going to sleep, even if you rode is designed for 4.4te. Even designing for 1.5 Tonnes would be over what is needed for boats of this size. So G40 6mm chain would be sufficiently strong and a snubber to protect your deck gear and drinks glasses. But I get that it’s a hard step to take to be confident in a highly engineered solution that looks puny.

The great thing about the solution Zoidberg has got here is the chain link that allows a bigger anchor and therefore shackle to be used with a smaller chain.

 

[boomerangben]

Interesting. To me, the anchor shackle looks the wrong way round. By that I usually put the shackle pin through the anchor aperture rather than through the chain link.
Can't explain why, but any Comments?

As I understand it where an anchor supplier doesn’t supply a shackle (a la CQR) you should always have the shackle as per the OPs and Neeve’s photos. Why? Partly as Farmer Piles says to avoid jamming and to allow freedom of movement but mainly to reduce the bending moment in the anchor shank. With the shackle is the other way round, when the boat is offset, the inside “cheeks” of the shackle bear on either side of the shank. This causes bending at the weakest point of the shank (where the hole is). But this moment also is transmitted down the length of the shank, amplified as it goes by the offset pull. It also tends to pull the cheeks of the shackle apart, putting extra stress on the shackle pin. That’s why using a swivel directly onto the anchor is also considered a bad idea. As Farmer Piles says, allowing the shackle to rotate avoids the bending at the eye altogether. It is also, I think, why quality shackle suppliers such as Crosby define a bow shackle as an anchor shackle and a D shackle as a chain shackle

 

[jamie N]

The reason I've gone for shackles rather than, say, hammerlock connectors is that I expect to stow the anchors with chain detached. Certainly, there are arguments in favour of more suitable shackles - and I'm open to those.

I'm also 'beefing up' my original mooring cleats considerably. It's been my experience that many boats have mooring fittings which are barely adequate, and even more which are inadequate.

with a safety pin inserted would've been my choice, and is (I believe) mandatory offshore, in my experience.
Would there be any chance of you posting an (easily understood) diagram? I'm having a problem visualizing it, and as an "ould bugr" m'self, it interests me.
I hope that the thread doesn't descend into one of those 'anchor threads' BTW!

 

[boomerangben]

I currently have a stainless carabiner which is fine at the moment as I always disconnect the anchor from the rode. If I were to replace it, I would be looking at one of these…



But not the 30te one!

And invest in some of these….



Instead of using the supplied split pin

 

[zoidberg]

I'll readily agree that there are shackles, and then there are shackles.
I couldn't source the KitoCrosby kit in the wanted size, in the UK - not even by asking their Regional Manager direct. So I sought alternatives.
The Green Pin shackles were available, and are better than what I had lying around....

But... I'd query quite how an anchor shackle needs to be different if one is sailing offshore. In my limited experience, most of the anchoring I've done has been Inshore. Someone asked me elsewhere about whether my chosen anchoring kit would be suitable if 'doing a Jester or a Transatlantic'.....

My wee boat has limitations. Storage space is one of those. I chose to remove and seal the foredeck navel pipe, as a known source of trouble. Instead, I shall carry my 'mixed rode' somewhere more convenient and range it, with a suitable anchor, on the deck when preparing to come to anchor..... and if/when threading pilotage where it may be needed pdq. I've done this before, know it works for me, and will do so again.

To that effect, I choose to have my Fortress Fx-16 anchors dismounted until wanted and kept each in its own stowage bag. Some will know these, purchased, are now priced at over £100 pounds - as a web search will show. I made my own from polyprop carpeting. Two of them cost me less than £10 plus some time.

Further, I decided I want to be able to assemble, ready-for-use, without needing to fumble for tools to do up the small nuts/bolts holding them together - so I substituted small ringnuts/ringbolts.... and added a handful of cableties.

And I DO have some spares.....

 

[john_morris_uk]

That's a very interesting question. Assuming the connection between the components remains wet, we would need to know where the alloy from which Fortress are built sits in the galvanic series. I found this but no values are given.
View attachment 174003

Fortress anchors are apparently an aluminium/magnesium alloy, 5xxx series. We can only guess what form of tempering they use but H16 seems likely, a strain hardened rather than thermal hardening process that would be appropriate in rolled sheet material. H16 is stronger than H32, all of which leads to the conclusion that the
material is relatively cathodic.

While zinc remains on your shackle and chain it will protect the anchor, assuming good electrical contact. Once all the zinc has been lost the anchor will be anodic to the steel but not excessively so, in which case corrosion should be slow.

I use a Wichard stainless steel shackle on my Fortress, with a rope rode on a plastic thimble. It is well over 20 years old with no sign of corrosion.

We’ve also had our Fortress ‘kedge’ anchor shackled to the fifteen metres of galvanised chain (which is in turn shackled to nylon rode) for the last 18 years. It’s in the bottom of a locker that is often damp. There’s no sign of corrosion on ours either if it’s any consolation to the OP.

PS I’ve only used the Fortresd once in all this time and that was to anchor with it and use the rode to pull the main anchor out of the stem head fitting where it had jambed in a careless bit of anchor retrieval. I reversed and the main anchor popped out instantly.

 

[boomerangben]

I'll readily agree that there are shackles, and then there are shackles.
I couldn't source the KitoCrosby kit in the wanted size, in the UK - not even by asking their Regional Manager direct. So I sought alternatives.
The Green Pin shackles were available, and are better than what I had lying around....

But... I'd query quite how an anchor shackle needs to be different if one is sailing offshore. In my limited experience, most of the anchoring I've done has been Inshore. Someone asked me elsewhere about whether my chosen anchoring kit would be suitable if 'doing a Jester or a Transatlantic'.....

My wee boat has limitations. Storage space is one of those. I chose to remove and seal the foredeck navel pipe, as a known source of trouble. Instead, I shall carry my 'mixed rode' somewhere more convenient and range it, with a suitable anchor, on the deck when preparing to come to anchor..... and if/when threading pilotage where it may be needed pdq. I've done this before, know it works for me, and will do so again.

To that effect, I choose to have my Fortress Fx-16 anchors dismounted until wanted and kept each in its own stowage bag. Some will know these, purchased, are now priced at over £100 pounds - as a web search will show. I made my own from polyprop carpeting. Two of them cost me less than £10 plus some time.

Further, I decided I want to be able to assemble, ready-for-use, without needing to fumble for tools to do up the small nuts/bolts holding them together - so I substituted small ringnuts/ringbolts.... and added a handful of cableties.

And I DO have some spares.....

When JamieN and I refer to offshore, we mean the offshore oil industry where safety has been learned the hard way and they are very particular about rigging things properly. Nothing to do with sailing offshore. I agree with you anchors are for shallow, inshore, sheltered waters

 

[Neeves]

Fortress are supplied with stainless nuts and bolts to effect assembly. I found that the stainless corroded on an assembled anchor. I used Duralac - problem solved. We had a big bow locker and could store a FX37 fully assembled. I kept the spare rode separate from the anchor (as I did not know which spare anchor I might use). I kept the spare rode in a milk crate and simple had spare shackles attached to the crate. I also had a shackle on the rode and each anchor had its own shackle (I had a lot of shackles ). All the shackles we used were Class B or G80, or Orange pin etc.

These branded shackles are good - I have never heard of a failure. It has never been the topic on a forum, here or CF.

Using the bow through the shank slot is to allow the bow shackle to articulate - as already mentioned. This is also the reason not to use a 'D' shackle as it will not articulate but will, in effect, increase the shank length and this will increase any lever effect, on the flukes (when set) and on the shackle. However if you down size your chain, but use a chain of the same strength, then the shackle will be oversize for the appririaste shackle and you then need Zoidberg's or my extra link (which is the same strength as the chain).

Some anchors have a slot too small to feed the eye of the shackle through the slot, for example Manson's Ray, or genuine CQRs. You need to use a 'D' shackle with the pin through the slot. The anchors are designed to take a 'D' shackle (that of the genuine CQR was part of your purchase).

You would not use one of the bolted shackle pins because they will not fit through (on retrieval) the bow roller.

Shackles if of the right size have been found to be pretty fool proof if you seize the pin with mousing wire and or Loctite.

I would not use a stainless shackle as you simply cannot source one as strong as an alloy version.

If you use 8mm G30 chain the WLL is 750kg and a 3/8th" shackle will fit the anchor, commonly 15kg, and the slot in the chain. Most 3/8th" shackles have a WLL of 1t. If the shackle is loaded at 90 degrees the strength is reduced by 50% - suddenly your shackle has a strength of 500kg, much less than the much more expensive chain. (if its loaded at 45 degrees the loss in strength is 25%). I've tested this side loading the deterioration is correct. Shackles are cheap as chips, compared to the chain and the anchor - why have the shackle the weak link.

Chain failure is almost a thing of the past and commonly because of poor manufacture, bad welds. But chain failure was common historically - not today. This suggests to me that the crude spread sheets for chain and yacht size (usually length) are right and probably err on the side of caution. If you down size chain you can safely choose a chain, say 6mm, of the same strength 8mm it replaces. (But you will need a snubber to replace the catenary that you will have 'lost' from the heavier chain).

Crosby, Peerless, Campbell and Yoke all have, what are termed, Class B shackles, sometimes called G80 shackles which have a WLL of 2t for a 3/8th" shackle. The shackle will be stronger than the chain, whatever goes wrong. This is the link to the Crosby shackles:

Crosby® 209A Alloy Screw Pin Anchor Shackles | Crosby®

and Campbell

5410695

and Peerless

KITO Canada | Peer-Lift® Screw Pin Anchor Shackles

Note that Peerless make Grade B shackles smaller than 3/8th"

showing no bias Yoke

https://www.yoke.net/english/wb_product02.asp?url=032&cid=138&nid=65

If you know someone in the US, visit the US - you should have no problem sourcing the American shackles - whether you can source them easily and financially acceptably in the UK (I have no real idea but I have been buying my Crosby shackles from Tecni, in Bristol).

Peerless call their G80 shackle range Peerlift, Campbell call theirs Orange pin shackles, I don't recall what Yoke say, or call them. Peerless, Crosby, Gunnebo, Kito Italy are all now part of Crosby Kito (or Kito Crosby). This new company is, as I say, new and it will take time for any benefits to filter through to the market place - but access should eventually be easier. Yoke are Taiwanese and have recently opened an office in the UK. Campbell are part of a large company Apex (not Allied) Tools?, and will be difficult to source from the UK, easier in America (so maybe you will find them in the Caribbean).

Green Pin shackles from Van Beest, of the size we use, 3/8th" has a WLL of 1t, are not as good as the ones I suggest.

CMP in their Titan range market a shackle called a Black Pin shackle which is the best they make (they have a Yellow pin shackle). The Black Pin shackle is not as good as Yoke, Crosby, Peerless, Campbell etc etc. but better than the same sized Green Pin. I do not recommend CMP's Black Pin shackles.

An alternative is to use a hammerlock - but they tend to come painted not galvanised. The paint is tenacious and one option is to buy 2, use one and when the one you use gets a bit grotty - swap. They are not expensive. But buy a G100 version and take 3 chain links and your anchor with you when you buy to make sure everything fits.

I would not use a carabiner - the spring loaded gate is subject to corrosion.


If you are contemplating altering your rode to use a smaller, but stronger chain, establish a thread - send me a PM to ensure I don't miss your thread - and I'll take you through the implications step by step. Implications for shackles are in this post.

Because I swapped anchors often I used cable ties to secure the shackle pin - but I kept a zip lock bag of replacements in the bow locker. I would use blue Loctite and a cable tie. Loctite will set under water. Red Loctite can demand a blow torch to release. I don't like mousing wire - it can easily cut you.

Jonathan

 

[Neeves]

In terms of the OP and his thread....

Developing a sensible anchor rode should have no woes. Its all very simple really - when you break it all down to the component parts.

A correctly sized rode is fool proof and totally safe and there really is little room for debate. All the stuff is tested (with some exceptions - so choose from reputable sources, not your hardware store) and the specifications are accepted internationally. There is a huge choice of acceptable kit, many chain makers, many shackle suppliers - its all then down to access and money.

Failure of a rode is almost unheard of.

The biggest issue is finding a source for your components and carrying bits and pieces, 3 links of chain and your anchor, to make sure everything matches - for strength and fit.

Changes in supply do occur, and your new chain is one of them, the new Kito/Crosby/Peerless/Gunnebo is another (and almost unique) and one cannot forget new anchor designs (without which our forum would have little reason for disagreements ).

Airing what you are doing, as you have done, allows you to receive comment and allows others to consider following your lead.

No woes!

Jonathan