Anchor problem, seeking advice

[Yealm]

I’m a bit doubtful that my new wizzy Rocna anchor will fit in the locker together with chain/warp (10kg, 30-40m chain).

Was thinking..

Could I keep the anchor somewhere in the cabin, and attach it each time to the chain with some sort of shackle? (I don’t want the anchor on the bow roller).

Is this reasonable, or would I be breaking one of those cardinal rules of sailing?! Are there any types of (fairly quick release) shackles that would do the job reliably?

 

[Hoolie]

Don't forget your anchor isn't just something you fish out when you stop for lunch. It's an essential piece of safety equipment that needs to be ready to deploy. Of course you could faff about with it when you're preparing to go out but it is a real overhead to do that. If it fits on your bow roller when sailing, why can't you keep it there?

 

[LadyInBed]

If it won't fit in the locker and you don't want it on the roller, a set of chocks / cradle mounted on the foredeck is the alternative.

 

[bitbaltic]

My main anchor (12kg) is also too big to fit in the (very undersized) anchor locker, so it lives in the lazarette. Am also unable to stow any anchor on the hopeless bow roller. But as others say having an anchor ready to go is important, so I keep a 6kg ‘lunch hook’ shackled to the rode, which works fine for daytime stops. It’s not really a problem to swap the anchors round when arriving for an overnight stop, each anchor has a bow shackle of its own. Does cost a bit in Monel wire though.

If stowing an anchor inside the boat I’d want it pretty well tied down in case of any damage it may do if the boat broaches (or worse) and it gets moving.

 

[doug748]

I’m a bit doubtful that my new wizzy Rocna anchor will fit in the locker together with chain/warp (10kg, 30-40m chain).

Was thinking..

Could I keep the anchor somewhere in the cabin, and attach it each time to the chain with some sort of shackle? (I don’t want the anchor on the bow roller).

Is this reasonable, or would I be breaking one of those cardinal rules of sailing?! Are there any types of (fairly quick release) shackles that would do the job reliably?

Hi. If you still have the Contessa, I can confirm my 10kg Rocna will fit ok with c45m of 8mm chain (and probably quite a lot more). Rope warp could be a problem, for all sorts of reasons I keep it elsewhere to shackle on as I need it, which is very rarely.

There is a knack. As I recall...... I make sure the mass of chain is not bunched up in the aft end of the locker. You can then poke the shank of the anchor in the forward end of the locker first. Then waggle the bulky end sideways and you find the clearance is fine.

All this assumes that all these boats were created exactly the same for the last 50 years, which may well not be the case.

.

 

[thinwater]

A whole lot of "can't" for what is a common problem on smaller boats. I'm only talking about <27 feet, not knowing what the OP has.

Many people that sail off a mooring don't like an anchor on the roller, because it can chafe the pendant. But you move the anchor if you will be anchoring.

I would not use anything other than a secured anchor shackle on the shank. There are too many ways the connector can be loaded at a bad angle, in a bind.

I did cruise for ~ 10 years in a 27-foot boat with no anchor locker. Some of the cruises lasted weeks and cover over 1000 miles, anchoring every night. I had 2 pivoting fluke anchors (Fortress and Danforth), each with about 10 feet of chain. They were kept in lockers and were attached to the rope rode with locking stainless rescue carabiners (working load about 2000 pounds, enough for that boat). Rock Exotica ($40), I think.

As for speed of deployment, no different than an anchor on a roller, really. Just a few seconds to clip and lock.

Something like (lanyard snap fall arrest) this would be novel, but I can't see one in SS. I have used the aluminum (common, about $15) version on boats, and it was pretty good if greased every year. I think Camp makes them in the UK. Again, it would have to be at the chain-rope interface. The working load is lower, only about 1200 pounds.

I would NOT use anything like a spinnaker shackle. They are not locking and can come open.

I do used carabiners to attach snubbers (fast and easy) but failure is non-critical--the rode is still attached.

Any other strong, locking quick connector ideas?

 

[Poecheng]

Here's as good a place as any to ask whether a decent soft shackle can be used to link anchor and chain/warp?
It may be the most stupid use yet suggested for a soft shackle but I haven't explained to myself why.

 

[thinwater]

Here's as good a place as any to ask whether a decent soft shackle can be used to link anchor and chain/warp?
It may be the most stupid use yet suggested for a soft shackle but I haven't explained to myself why.

I think it's a good place.

I would not use it on the shank. Too much chafe, movement, sharp edges, and weird angles.

Connecting a chain to rope or even two chains that need to go over a gypsy is more interesting. A pair, perhaps, to guard against the chance of opening, though I don't recall anyone mentioning one coming off of a flogging jib sheet, so it's quite unlikely. I've used them for years and never had one come loose. They can be made to match any chain strength and they will ride over a gypsy. Lot's of people use them to attach snubbers.

But I'm not sayin' from personal experience.

 

[NormanS]

I've always had a chain locker, but I've never had an anchor locker. ?

 

[thinwater]

I've always had a chain locker, but I've never had an anchor locker. ?

Anchor lockers are relatively common. Not ubiquitous, but not uncommon. I've had rollers, chain lockers, anchor lockers, and neither. Most performance boats don't want an anchor and roller poking out front.

Why the roll eyes?

 

[Solostoke]

If I keep my anchors in my chain locker as well is it now an anchor locker?

 

[thinwater]

If I keep my anchors in my chain locker as well is it now an anchor locker?

There is such a thing as separate chain and anchor lockers. Were you possibly being funny?

 

[Neeves]

I'd have thought whether you call your locker in the bow a chain or an anchor locker most people would know exactly what you are talking about.

I see no reason for not calling it an anchor(ing) locker and I have seen some lockers in which the chain is stored with a special moulding to accept a Danforth anchor. The Danforth was stored in a moulding on the hull side with plenty of room for chain. The specific locker in the image also holds the windlass - so what are you going to call it? Thinwater has an image on the same sort of thing - seems all very sensible to me. Commonly the anchor and or chain locker is an after thought - the tiny space left over once the accomodation is squeezed in. Many yacht designers obviously don't anchor and spend all their time in a marina. Its a pity more anchor lockers are not properly designed.




Many yachts that are used as cruising yachts will take part in races and the anchor will need to be removedfrom the bow roller and it will commonly be stored on top of the chain.

To the OP - the number of times we have needed the anchor in an emergency is.....zero. I'd not have my practices dictated by emergencies that never happen (our life raft fits into the same statistic and we only carry it for a long offshore ventures). Store the anchor where you know it is kept - have a shackle on the anchor and one on the rode (shackles get moved). Pack the anchor such that it cannot move but be easily accessible. Carrying a 10kg anchor down the deck is not that difficult - or if it is buy an aluminium Excel from Jimmy Green, or a Kobra and send the Rocna back from where it came. Have a length of wire though the shackle pin 'ready'.

There are other options - but they are more expensive. my guess is that you are using 8mm chain and you could replace the 8mm with 6mm freeing up lots of space.

This our old rode rusty and yellow, 50m of 8mm chain on the left and our new rode 75m of 6mm dark grey, on the right. The two chains have a similar strength - when new.



You don't mention whether you have a windlass - if you do you would need a new gypsy. If you deploy by hand then you will find 6mm chain much easier to work with. If you down size to 6mm you will need a snubber (visit your local library and borrow the July issue of YM for an article on snubbers or:

Read these

How to: Dealing with Snatch Loads in an Anchorage

Anchor Snubber Tips

The other suggestion is to design a couple of chocks, as mentioned above, on the deck and secure the anchor there. The older RNLI lifeboats used to do this with their Deltas and do exactly the same with their Spade on the new Shannon boats.

Your mistake was buying the Rocna in the first place - if its new and still whizzy - change it - there are many anchors now that will complete the same task, some are lighter (like the aluminium Excel), some have shorter shanks, like a Knox, some can be dismantled like a Spade (or the aluminium Excel), some fold, like the Kobra.

And if you are worried and sleepless over that emergency need for an anchor - simply buy a Fortress that fits in the locker, on top of the rode, and its ready for the never to happen event - and when you want to stop overnight swap to something different.

You have lots of options - think outside the box! - and don't become a pedant.

Take care, stay safe

Jonathan

 

[Neeves]

If you read your windlass manual it will strongly advise, don't use the windlass to pull the vessel toward the anchor, use a chain lock or short strop to take the rode load off the windlass and transfer the load to a strong point.

I see windlass equipped like the picture provided by Thinwater - I wonder why many windlass have a cleat on the top or side of the windlass casing. I wonder what intended use is envisaged.

I can guess what the obvious use is

Jonathan

 

[NormanS]

If you read your windlass manual it will strongly advise, don't use the windlass to pull the vessel toward the anchor, use a chain lock or short strop to take the rode load off the windlass and transfer the load to a strong point.

I see windlass equipped like the picture provided by Thinwater - I wonder why many windlass have a cleat on the top or side of the windlass casing. I wonder what intended use is envisaged.

I can guess what the obvious use is

Jonathan

I've never read that advice, thank goodness!
Being one who still has the benefit of catenary ?, when we prepare to lift our anchor, we use the windlass. What happens is that chain winds in, straightening the curve of the catenary, and of course the boat moves forward. Frankly, I don't see any problem. Obviously, if it's blowing a hoolie, I'll use the engine or sails to reduce the load.
Our Lofrans Tigres windlass has a cleat on top, which is almost never used. A load on that high mounted cleat would put an unfair and unnecessary load on the windlass mounting. The cleat is higher off the deck than the fore and aft distance between the mounting bolts. Principal of Moments.

 

[Stemar]

I had an engine failure just after dropping my mooring, in a strong tide, not enough wind for a sail to help and surrounded by expensive GRP. I saved myself much expense and grief by having an anchor ready for immediate deployment. I really don't want to have to rummage around in a locker and faff around with a shackle that's guaranteed to lose it's pin overboard in a situation like that. Even more so on a lee shore in a blow, when a lunch hook wouldn't be enough.

If you haven't anywhere else to store the anchor, the chocks mentioned by LadyInBed would be my choice.

Is the reason you don't want it on the roller because it's used by your mooring pennant? If so, one option might be to fit twin polysteel pennants, one through each bow fairlead, freeing the roller for the anchor. This would also improve the resilience of the mooring and the boat would swing less.

 

[Neeves]

I've never read that advice, thank goodness!
Being one who still has the benefit of catenary ?, when we prepare to lift our anchor, we use the windlass. What happens is that chain winds in, straightening the curve of the catenary, and of course the boat moves forward. Frankly, I don't see any problem. Obviously, if it's blowing a hoolie, I'll use the engine or sails to reduce the load.
Our Lofrans Tigres windlass has a cleat on top, which is almost never used. A load on that high mounted cleat would put an unfair and unnecessary load on the windlass mounting. The cleat is higher off the deck than the fore and aft distance between the mounting bolts. Principal of Moments.

Quote

From the Lofrans Instructions for the Tigres

If possible, do not carry out the anchor recovery operation by relying only on the onboard batteries. Start the motor of the boat (or the generator) to obtain
the necessary electromotive force.


Quote from Lewmar


6.3 Windlass operating procedures
This is an anchor recovery device. DO NOT use the windlass to pull the boat to the anchor as it will damage the mechanism. Vessels at anchor will snub on the rode and this can cause slippage or apply excessive loads to the windlass. Best practice is to use a bollard or other strong point when at anchor and use the vessels engines to break the anchor free. Otherwise excessive load will cause the freefall function to seize and can cause damage to the gearbox.

end quote

Maxwell have similar instructions.

If the horn cleat on the top of the windlass is not to be used as part of an anchoring procedure - what is it for? Most yachts already have 2 cleats on the bow some only one.

Jonathan

 

[NormanS]

Quote

From the Lofrans Instructions for the Tigres

If possible, do not carry out the anchor recovery operation by relying only on the onboard batteries. Start the motor of the boat (or the generator) to obtain
the necessary electromotive force.


Quote from Lewmar

View attachment 132011 View attachment 132012
6.3 Windlass operating procedures
This is an anchor recovery device. DO NOT use the windlass to pull the boat to the anchor as it will damage the mechanism. Vessels at anchor will snub on the rode and this can cause slippage or apply excessive loads to the windlass. Best practice is to use a bollard or other strong point when at anchor and use the vessels engines to break the anchor free. Otherwise excessive load will cause the freefall function to seize and can cause damage to the gearbox.

end quote

Maxwell have similar instructions.

If the horn cleat on the top of the windlass is not to be used as part of an anchoring procedure - what is it for? Most yachts already have 2 cleats on the bow some only one.

Jonathan

Well, I'm glad that I don't have one of those Lewmar windlasses then.
Also glad that Lofrans (from your quote from their instructions) don't appear to have any qualms about heaving in the chain. I'm not sure why you mention the obvious point about relying solely on battery power.

 

[langstonelayabout]

I would NOT use anything like a spinnaker shackle. They are not locking and can come open.

I do used carabiners to attach snubbers (fast and easy) but failure is non-critical--the rode is still attached.

Any other strong, locking quick connector ideas?

for the life of me, a quick connector is the last thing I would use anywhere within an anchor rode. If you keep your anchor and chain/rope separately (like I do for my kedge) then at least have a conventional shackle ready and greased on the chain or anchor to join the two. If you want to gild the lily, have a piece of mousing wire ready too. That fitting in the picture is one of the last things I would use for my anchor.

 

[Praxinoscope]

I've always had a chain locker, but I've never had an anchor locker. ?

Looking at the original brochure for the Sadler 25 the plan shows and lists an ‘Anchor Locker’, which I can confirm exists on my boat.