Anchor locker

[pmagowan]

Do you have an anchor locker on your boat? You know the type, at the bow, accessed from above. I have been thinking about their design and how to fit one in with both a windlass and a samson post. They seem a really good idea as there are lots of things that could be stored there for mooring and anchoring activity. The problem I have is how to fit it in. The windlass will have chain going directly from it to the bow roller and there must be a samson post somewhere in front of it but not so far forward that it is forward of the bow fairleads. Do you fit it in behind the windlass? Does it hinge in the middle so that it can get past the chain? What is the best design.

p.s. for a circa 40ft blue water cruising cutter.

 

[Tranona]

You will find good anchor lockers on many Swedish boats because their practice is to also use them for stowage of both gas bottles and fenders. Nothing clever about designing a good locker and the reason why many are not so good as they do not start far enough back as that means losing space in the forecabin. The ideal is not to have the chain storage in the bows, but just in front of the mast so that you can get a straight drop and the windlass is back from the bow allowing clear space to have a proper sampson post or bollard.

The starting point is to establish how far back you can get for a decent fall and storage capacity and this depends to an extent on the shape of the bow. For example my vertical stem boat has enough depth for 50m+ right at the front but to use it the windlass is aft actually over the foot of the forward berth and the chain runs forward which is not ideal. The bow roller is mostly forward of the stem to give enough room for the shank and so that the chain and anchor clear the stem. However, not enough room for any form of cleat forward of the windlass so a snubber to a cleat is essential.

As you are designing from scratch and you see anchoring arrangements as a priority you can decide to sacrifice accommodation to achieve your aim, unlike production builders who mainly have accommodation as a priority.

 

[pmagowan]

You will find good anchor lockers on many Swedish boats because their practice is to also use them for stowage of both gas bottles and fenders. Nothing clever about designing a good locker and the reason why many are not so good as they do not start far enough back as that means losing space in the forecabin. The ideal is not to have the chain storage in the bows, but just in front of the mast so that you can get a straight drop and the windlass is back from the bow allowing clear space to have a proper sampson post or bollard.

The starting point is to establish how far back you can get for a decent fall and storage capacity and this depends to an extent on the shape of the bow. For example my vertical stem boat has enough depth for 50m+ right at the front but to use it the windlass is aft actually over the foot of the forward berth and the chain runs forward which is not ideal. The bow roller is mostly forward of the stem to give enough room for the shank and so that the chain and anchor clear the stem. However, not enough room for any form of cleat forward of the windlass so a snubber to a cleat is essential.

As you are designing from scratch and you see anchoring arrangements as a priority you can decide to sacrifice accommodation to achieve your aim, unlike production builders who mainly have accommodation as a priority.

Thanks,
I am presuming the forward berth will be mine, as the skipper. It seems to be the berth that gives the most clues as to what the boat is doing. I have, up to now, always been on a saloon berth as it makes it easy to get up in the night to check on things (my boat being very compact). I can certainly sacrifice some of it for a chain locker and I am keen on having the locker large enough to be useful for other stowage. I am not sure how much of a problem the chain drop is going to be. It is an occasional issue on my current boat but it has very limited room and 50 odd meters of chain. I suppose stainless chain could solve any problem here by being 'slippery' and thus able to settle well.

Another important feature of the chain locker is to act as a crash bulkhead. It therefore needs to be large enough that it takes in a good portion of the bow such that if you had a significant collision it is unlikely to break through into the forward cabin. I would like to have some home comforts in the cabin though so I don't want to sacrifice too much. The boat has to have 3 cabins already which is 1 more than ideal for my design.

 

[westhinder]

My previous boat, a Rival 34, had the samson post behind the manual windlass and behind the post was a hawsepipe. That system worked well enough from the point of view of load bearing, but it had two drawbacks: First, the hawse pipe was an obstruction at the foot of the forward berth, effectively separating the feet of a couple using the berth; second, if the chain piled up under the hawse pipe and obstructed the pipe, you had to send someone below and forward to dive under the mattress, lift the lid of the chain locker and tip the pile of chain, pretty annoying. If you wanted a similar arrangement, you would have to solve the two drawbacks. The shallow anchor well was offset to port.
Current boat, Starlight 39, has the windlass mounted on a shelf in the anchor well, with the chain dropping straight down from the gipsy. Works very well, have not had any problems with the chain piling up. The boat has no samson post, but it would be perfectly possible to mount one behind the anchor well. As it is, I simply take the chain off the gipsy and put it on one of the forward cleats.
As an aside, the anchor point for the removable forestay is just behind the anchor well cover, its chainplate being bolted through the rear bulkhead of the anchor well.

 

[Twister_Ken]

A samson post needs to be able to take a lot of strain in gorblimey conditions. Would it be possible to place it just aft of the anchor locker, so that it is webbed onto the aft bulkhead of the locker, which is suitably beefed-up to take the loads?

 

[pmagowan]

A samson post needs to be able to take a lot of strain in gorblimey conditions. Would it be possible to place it just aft of the anchor locker, so that it is webbed onto the aft bulkhead of the locker, which is suitably beefed-up to take the loads?

I had not really thought about putting the samson post aft. I always thought of it as being forward of the windlass such that it is easy to have the strain taken on the samsonpost while still having the windlass engaged as a backup. I supose there is not a particularly convincing reason to have it in that orientation as both you and westhinder have experience of the contrary.

I am not sure about westhinders idea of having them in the locker. I have seen it on a few boats but it always strikes me that they are just trying to get rid of the things and would be happier if people didn't anchor at all. I supose I could have the access hatch to the anchor locker off to one side and either offset the windlass and samson post or the locker hatch. I will have to work out how easy it would be to gain access with this arrangement. It would allow for more longtitudinal bracing in line with the 'king plank' which would strengthen the attachment of botht he windlass and samson post.

 

[westhinder]

I had not really thought about putting the samson post aft. I always thought of it as being forward of the windlass such that it is easy to have the strain taken on the samsonpost while still having the windlass engaged as a backup. I supose there is not a particularly convincing reason to have it in that orientation as both you and westhinder have experience of the contrary.

I am not sure about westhinders idea of having them in the locker. I have seen it on a few boats but it always strikes me that they are just trying to get rid of the things and would be happier if people didn't anchor at all. I supose I could have the access hatch to the anchor locker off to one side and either offset the windlass and samson post or the locker hatch. I will have to work out how easy it would be to gain access with this arrangement. It would allow for more longtitudinal bracing in line with the 'king plank' which would strengthen the attachment of botht he windlass and samson post.

just to be clear, it is only the windlass which is in the anchor well on the present boat. There is no samson post, but as TK says, it is conceivable to put one just behind the anchor hatch

 

[NormanS]

As it is, I simply take the chain off the gipsy and put it on one of the forward cleats.

That could be challenging in some conditions.

 

[dunedin]

That could be challenging in some conditions.

Why? We never put chain under load directly onto any cleat or samson post. Once anchor is set we immediately put a rope snubber on - either a short one on deck only for a lunch stop and/or a longer one (with rubber spring built in) for overnight).
On previous boat we wrapped some chain loosely round cleat in case of snubber failure, but on current it is usually just a second snubber with chain shackle.

A good sized locker with both chain and fender/ kedge/rope storage is a great idea if possible. Gets rid of a lot of this messy stuff, makes the watertight bulkhead further back and hence more useful, and gives a much wider berth in the bow cabin

 

[NormanS]

Why? We never put chain under load directly onto any cleat or samson post. Once anchor is set we immediately put a rope snubber on - either a short one on deck only for a lunch stop and/or a longer one (with rubber spring built in) for overnight).
On previous boat we wrapped some chain loosely round cleat in case of snubber failure, but on current it is usually just a second snubber with chain shackle.

A good sized locker with both chain and fender/ kedge/rope storage is a great idea if possible. Gets rid of a lot of this messy stuff, makes the watertight bulkhead further back and hence more useful, and gives a much wider berth in the bow cabin

The reason that I said it could be challenging, was that Westhinder didn't say anything about transferring the load to a snubber or chain hook etc. Personally, I never put chain on a cleat, but I do have a device with a slot for the chain, on a strop. As soon as I am happy with the amount of chain deployed, the load is transferred to this slot, by standing on the chain, and easing the clutch. The load is off the gypsy, but the chain is not.

I dislike the idea of the windlass being down in the chain locker. Yes, it keeps the deck clear, but it reduces the "drop" for the chain to stow. I suppose it depends on how much you anchor. Maybe if you don't anchor very often, and are prepared to assist the chain to stow, the loss of "drop" is less of an issue.

 

[westhinder]

The reason that I said it could be challenging, was that Westhinder didn't say anything about transferring the load to a snubber or chain hook etc. Personally, I never put chain on a cleat, but I do have a device with a slot for the chain, on a strop. As soon as I am happy with the amount of chain deployed, the load is transferred to this slot, by standing on the chain, and easing the clutch. The load is off the gypsy, but the chain is not.

I dislike the idea of the windlass being down in the chain locker. Yes, it keeps the deck clear, but it reduces the "drop" for the chain to stow. I suppose it depends on how much you anchor. Maybe if you don't anchor very often, and are prepared to assist the chain to stow, the loss of "drop" is less of an issue.

I did not mention using a snubber, which I do as a matter of course, as it was not immediately pertinent to the question asked.
My current setup with the windlass on a shelf in the anchor locker works well. I haven't had a problem with the chain piling up as I did on the previous boat.

 

[prv]

I dislike the idea of the windlass being down in the chain locker. Yes, it keeps the deck clear, but it reduces the "drop" for the chain to stow. I suppose it depends on how much you anchor.

More pertinently, it depends on the shape of the bow and hence the depth of the locker. I've sailed a number of boats with the windlass mounted at the top of a nice deep anchor locker with plenty of height to let the chain self-stow without assistance.

Pete

 

[Nigelb]

We have a deep anchor locker forward of the horizontal windlass, plenty of drop and storage but still suffer from the chain conning on retrieval. No separate chain stopper or Sampson post in this set up. I use a short snubber and in more stressful situations lash the chain using both forward cleats. The windlass is mounted on a steel plate but still notice the deck flex. If I was going further afield I would stiffen the under deck structure and improve the forward angle bracket securing the bolts.

 

[Binman]

Just googled boat chain lockers images,found many different layouts, worth a look.there is a calculation at the start, to give you an idea of space required, thought about doing something with my own locker, on Pandora 700