Adetheheat
Member
I believe the anchor line is useful to take the strain off the electric windlass - is that so? How long an anchor line should I get ? I've got just a 23 foot motorboat.
Ta
Ta
Anchor line
- Thread starter Adetheheat
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B27
Well-known member
Literally how long is a piece of string?
If you are just stopped for lunch in calm weather, then a few feet will do.
If conditions get a bit more lively, a good guess might be a boat length or so of stretchy nylon rope.
A stretchy rope taking the strain from the chain to the boat is often called a 'snubber'.
If you search the forum for that, you'll find plenty of opinions!
The less stretchy the rope, the longer it should be.
Personally, we only have a few metres of chain, then if it's at all lively we'll have 30m of nylon rope out or more if it's deeper.
If you are just stopped for lunch in calm weather, then a few feet will do.
If conditions get a bit more lively, a good guess might be a boat length or so of stretchy nylon rope.
A stretchy rope taking the strain from the chain to the boat is often called a 'snubber'.
If you search the forum for that, you'll find plenty of opinions!
The less stretchy the rope, the longer it should be.
Personally, we only have a few metres of chain, then if it's at all lively we'll have 30m of nylon rope out or more if it's deeper.
lustyd
Well-known member
Mine is long enough to have a spliced loop one end to go over a cleat and a spliced chain hook the other end about a foot under the water. Literally just use it because it’s quiet taking the strain off the chain and it’s convenient as I just drop it on.
Provides no stretch but we’ve not found we need that so far.
Provides no stretch but we’ve not found we need that so far.
Adetheheat
Member
Thanks
Neeves
Well-known member
To protect the windlass you simply need a short strop attached to the chain and a strong point, say a bow cleat. So reply the rode, attach the short strop, deploy another 2' of rode, so the rode between storm on the rode and the windlass is slack - now the tension is on the short strop and your bow attachment point.
The short strop is commonly called a snubber - but is too short to actually offer you any snubbing, or any elasticity. Commonly and sensibly you also have a longer length of rope, commonly nylon (because it offers elesticty) attached to a strong point on the deck, the other bow cleat, and then deployed to a chain hook forward of the bow. The chain tension is then transferred to the long bit of nylon (and if it fails) to the short strop.
The long piece of nylon offers elasticity and removes the snatch loads (and confusingly is also and correctly called a snubber)
As mentioned - use the search function for 'snubber' and you will find chapter and verse.
If you need clarification - start a new thread.
Jonathan
Stemar
Well-known member
On our 23' sailing boat, I made up a line with an eye splice to go over the cleat, long enough to go over the bow roller and reach about a metre to a chain hook, with one of these
below the chain hook, and a bit of pipe over the line where it goes over the roller. It worked well, and lasted us for years. Big plus, it stopped the graunching of the chain moving in the roller at anchor.
Laid nylon is good, because it's easy to splice and is quite elastic, but it doesn't much like UV. You can also get laid polyester made for mooring lines, which should last longer, and still has some elasticity.
below the chain hook, and a bit of pipe over the line where it goes over the roller. It worked well, and lasted us for years. Big plus, it stopped the graunching of the chain moving in the roller at anchor.
Laid nylon is good, because it's easy to splice and is quite elastic, but it doesn't much like UV. You can also get laid polyester made for mooring lines, which should last longer, and still has some elasticity.
lustyd
Well-known member
At this length the elasticity is irrelevant (especially if you have the rubber snubber) so may as well go for longevity in the Polyester. With a longer one to the stern it might make a difference.
ylop
Well-known member
Intrigued if anyone uses two lines in a V-bridle (on a monohull, I know that is normal on a cat). Seems that two lines would stretch less, but load the deck hardware less, but also help make sure the load is central and so more comfortable.
If you have a rubber snubber in the line - do you dig the anchor in (engine reverse) with the snubber in place?
If you have a rubber snubber in the line - do you dig the anchor in (engine reverse) with the snubber in place?
Sea Change
Well-known member
We have a samson post. We lock the chain off on this and then dig in the anchor. If all is good, we then either
a) do nothing else, if it's a quiet anchorage
b) set up a short single 10mm nylon snubber, mostly to isolate chain noise, but also to absorb shock loads
c) set up a longer pair of these snubbers, one either side, if the anchorage is gusty and the boat is veering around.
The snubber length varies depending on conditions. It's good to vary the chafe points. Each one is 10m long and we will use the full length in strong conditions, for maximum stretch. I also like to use the tail of one of the snubbers as a final 'fall arrester' on to the chain; in the event of the main snubber(s) breaking, the boat could fall back some distance before the slack in the chain is taken up, and that would lead to a large shock load. Having a bit of nylon taking that load feels much better.
Our snubbers are much skinnier than most people's, but that means they are nice and stretchy. They need replaced every few months, 10mm is pretty cheap though.
a) do nothing else, if it's a quiet anchorage
b) set up a short single 10mm nylon snubber, mostly to isolate chain noise, but also to absorb shock loads
c) set up a longer pair of these snubbers, one either side, if the anchorage is gusty and the boat is veering around.
The snubber length varies depending on conditions. It's good to vary the chafe points. Each one is 10m long and we will use the full length in strong conditions, for maximum stretch. I also like to use the tail of one of the snubbers as a final 'fall arrester' on to the chain; in the event of the main snubber(s) breaking, the boat could fall back some distance before the slack in the chain is taken up, and that would lead to a large shock load. Having a bit of nylon taking that load feels much better.
Our snubbers are much skinnier than most people's, but that means they are nice and stretchy. They need replaced every few months, 10mm is pretty cheap though.
Neeves
Well-known member
Snubbers 'age', any rope ages, by the number and size of stretch cycles. We would power set the anchor before attaching a snubber. Expect your snubber to suffer from age (too many cycles). it will break - have a spare. If it does not break your snubber is too beefy or you anchor only in sheltered anchorages or only in fair weather
Snubbing depends on elasticity - you don't 'snub' unless you have elasticity. If you can rig a bridle it will help to manage yawing at anchor, and reduces any stress if the wind is yawing.
If you rig a bridle it needs to be composed of thinner ropes than a single snubber.
Most cat bridles are far too beefy and too short - they manage yawing but not snatch loads. Nylon makes the best snubber - its the most elastic of common fibres. Construction does not matter, braided or 3ply - best kern mantle.
Sea Change arrangement is good. To have a 10m bridle - run it from a sheet winch in the transom and along the deck then you can have 1m forward of the bow.
You need to be able to see the snubber stretching - or its not snubbing (because it is too beefy)
Remember or realise that if you snubber fails there will be a very big snatch, as SC mentions have short strop to ensure the snatch is taken in a strong point, horn cleat, Samson post - NOT the windlass.
Jonathan
Snubbing depends on elasticity - you don't 'snub' unless you have elasticity. If you can rig a bridle it will help to manage yawing at anchor, and reduces any stress if the wind is yawing.
If you rig a bridle it needs to be composed of thinner ropes than a single snubber.
Most cat bridles are far too beefy and too short - they manage yawing but not snatch loads. Nylon makes the best snubber - its the most elastic of common fibres. Construction does not matter, braided or 3ply - best kern mantle.
Sea Change arrangement is good. To have a 10m bridle - run it from a sheet winch in the transom and along the deck then you can have 1m forward of the bow.
You need to be able to see the snubber stretching - or its not snubbing (because it is too beefy)
Remember or realise that if you snubber fails there will be a very big snatch, as SC mentions have short strop to ensure the snatch is taken in a strong point, horn cleat, Samson post - NOT the windlass.
Jonathan
lustyd
Well-known member
The thread isn't about snubbing, it's about securing the rode to a cleat. For this, a short line as has been described is perfect.
dunedin
Well-known member
I do now, after having to replace windlass bearings.
We use two "snubbers"
1) a short non stretch one on deck only, to take load off the windlass - the "lunch hook"
2) longer one with rubber piece inserted- added for overnight
We generally set the anchor using the lunch hook, as quicker to put on and less stretch better for setting.
Then more chain out and add overnight snubber.
Neeves
Well-known member
I agree but we use the word snubber to mean 2 different things and both devices are used in a very similar application. Its, maybe, important that you have both devices, one for snatch loads and one to protect the windlass. Its also important that there is no confusion about the 2 roles (and that the windlass protecting 'snubber' offers very little protection from snatch loads - you need an elastic 'snubber').
So describing the characteristics of the 2 different snubbers - has value.
It was not very long ago when people simply did not use nor know of the elastic snubber (and I still see people with no snubber, at all). If you have a chain lock as part of your bow gear and the chain lock is not part of the windlass, you don't need the short strop (just a snubber.
. ).Jonathan
lustyd
Well-known member
You may not need it, but rope is quieter so I’d still use the rope regardless of chain devices to take the weight off of the chain.
Daydream believer
Well-known member
Isn't that what the OP wants to know?
NormanS
Well-known member
I have a chain stopper on deck, attached with a webbing strop to a special strong point. This takes the load off the windlass.
People mention "snatch loads". We don't anchor in places where there are big waves, so our boat and gear is not subjected to snatch loads.
People mention "snatch loads". We don't anchor in places where there are big waves, so our boat and gear is not subjected to snatch loads.
vyv_cox
Well-known member
I carry two very different 'snubbers'. One is a snubber in the 'true' sense of the word, 12 mm nylon intended to stretch for absorption of high loads, mostly yawing in strong winds. The other is just the opposite, a short heavy length of rope that takes the load off the windlass. Berthed stern-to on anchor the last thing wanted is stretch.
More info here Snubbers
More info here Snubbers
Neeves
Well-known member
There is no one answer fits all.
Med mooring, Vyv, is one extreme, Norman is spending his time at well sheltered Hebridean islands - but both try to ensure their windlass is not taking, nor going to take excessive , tension. Vyv uses a non elastic strop, Norman uses a chain lock.
For your 23' motor boat - 1m x 15mm 3 ply + whatever is needed to secure to the chain, chain hook, and your strong point, a spliced eye on a bow cleat.
or
Investigate installing a chain lock, available from a number of sources Levered Chain Stopper - Maxwell
A 1m length of rope +spliced eye and a chain hook, you could put one together sitting at your fireside, chain lock (stopper) available in all good chandlers.
Jonathan
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lustyd
Well-known member
15mm won’t fit on most appropriately sized chain hooks so check before buying. The one I have uses 12mm rope for a 36’ yacht against 10mm chain. This is not the primary rode so doesn’t need sizing as such. The chain should also be secured in case the rope fails, although this would be extremely unlikely.
Force 4 Stainless Steel Chain Grab Hook | Force 4 Chandlery
Neeves
Well-known member
The OP has a 23' motor boat. We know nothing about his location, the boat nor how he uses it.
A 23' motor boat could have decent accomodation to allow for anchoring overnight, or for a week, or the boat could be used for day trips and fishing.
At most the OP needs 6mm chain. Whether he has all chain or chain and rope we don't know. Most mobos of that size would have a drum winch and a mixed rode. If he has a mixed rode he really does not need the faff or an extra snubber. All he needs to do is tie of the rope portion of his rode to a bow cleat and slacken any tension on the windlass winch.
If he has all chain then an appropriate chain hook is the easiest and it is easily possible to use 15mm rope - just use a shackle in the hook and tie off to the shackle. You can buy eye hooks of a size to take quite substantial rope - but they are for 10mm or 12mm chain, hardly appropriate for a 23' boat.
If the OP has all chain, or a mixed rode he can source an appropriate short piece of rope and tie off to the chain or the rope portion of the rode using a Prussic knot or rolling hitch, no need for a hook at all - as long as he learns the ropes, sorry knots.
My recommendation, with a clean sand (or mud) is a Fortress anchor, around 2.5kg or a 5kg Lewmar Epsilon for weed. A mixed rode, 5m of chain and the rest of the rode 10mm nylon. I've never compared but a drum winch might be the most convenient for a mixed rode and a windlass for all chain.
Jonathan
A 23' motor boat could have decent accomodation to allow for anchoring overnight, or for a week, or the boat could be used for day trips and fishing.
At most the OP needs 6mm chain. Whether he has all chain or chain and rope we don't know. Most mobos of that size would have a drum winch and a mixed rode. If he has a mixed rode he really does not need the faff or an extra snubber. All he needs to do is tie of the rope portion of his rode to a bow cleat and slacken any tension on the windlass winch.
If he has all chain then an appropriate chain hook is the easiest and it is easily possible to use 15mm rope - just use a shackle in the hook and tie off to the shackle. You can buy eye hooks of a size to take quite substantial rope - but they are for 10mm or 12mm chain, hardly appropriate for a 23' boat.
If the OP has all chain, or a mixed rode he can source an appropriate short piece of rope and tie off to the chain or the rope portion of the rode using a Prussic knot or rolling hitch, no need for a hook at all - as long as he learns the ropes, sorry knots
.My recommendation, with a clean sand (or mud) is a Fortress anchor, around 2.5kg or a 5kg Lewmar Epsilon for weed. A mixed rode, 5m of chain and the rest of the rode 10mm nylon. I've never compared but a drum winch might be the most convenient for a mixed rode and a windlass for all chain.
Jonathan
