Refueler
Well-known member
Can you blame them ?? Kudo's that they understood limitations.
Anchor chain, antifouling
- Thread starter David156
- Start date
Can you blame them ?? Kudo's that they understood limitations.
Refueler
Well-known member
Have more respect for such owner than some twit who buys a smaller usual boat and then proceeds to play dodgem's in a marina ...
Tranona
Well-known member
Actually read David's posts - not a newbie at all. Then have a look at the boat he has bought. As well as requiring respect, it will put some of the comments from Jonathan and myself about anchors into context. Definitely not your rufty tufty world girdler 50 footer at all and will require much thought in designing a good anchor handling system.
This one example of the boat, more if you Google
devalk.nl/en/yachtbrokerage/41409/WASA-51-ATLANTIC.html
Refueler
Well-known member
Hi David ... I hope you don't feel put out by my previous comment - I did say 'possible' and that I did not intend to be rude etc.
I based it on your first post which didn't have any background .. so I ask that be taken in consideration m'lud !!
I reckon given the info now - a few are reining in !! Good for you and I wish all the very best. If you ever get into Baltic - and fancy time spent here .. PM me and I will help in any way I can ...
zoidberg
Well-known member
Sea Change
Well-known member
Interesting choice of boat!
Question about those using lightweight high strength chain, what is the lifespan like? I'm using old fashioned G30 10mm and through several years of use it's lost a lot of zinc. But there's still plenty metal left so I'm not worried about it, for now. Presumably with lighter chain you'd have to be a bit more careful and possibly replace or re-galvanise more often?
On the stern anchor, agree with the comments about the need for light weight here. A Fortress would be ideal, with a short length of chain and then nylon. I almost always dinghy my stern anchor out and that would be impossible if dragging 60m of chain around.
Question about those using lightweight high strength chain, what is the lifespan like? I'm using old fashioned G30 10mm and through several years of use it's lost a lot of zinc. But there's still plenty metal left so I'm not worried about it, for now. Presumably with lighter chain you'd have to be a bit more careful and possibly replace or re-galvanise more often?
On the stern anchor, agree with the comments about the need for light weight here. A Fortress would be ideal, with a short length of chain and then nylon. I almost always dinghy my stern anchor out and that would be impossible if dragging 60m of chain around.
Sea Change
Well-known member
Two more points- before you buy a windlass, give some consideration to going 24v, especially if you are adding any other new electrical equipment. Most stuff like lighting and fridges can run on either 12v or 24v. The big advantage of 24v is that you can halve the cable sizes which might be sensible on a boat that big.
Also, I agree with the suggestions to go for coppercoat. It's a bit more expensive than ablative antifouling but over the lifespan it's an absolute no brainer, especially if you plan to sail somewhere warm where you can jump in and scrub the hull yourself.
Also, I agree with the suggestions to go for coppercoat. It's a bit more expensive than ablative antifouling but over the lifespan it's an absolute no brainer, especially if you plan to sail somewhere warm where you can jump in and scrub the hull yourself.
srm
Well-known member
As the boat has been dry sailed there should be no problems in applying Coppercoat. High front end cost but then just pressure wash/scrub from time to time for the next ten or so years.
Neeves
Well-known member
If you have lost a lot of zinc you are now losing steel (and the zinc coating is harder than the chain) - you really need to get it regalvanised before it thins too much (10%). G30 or G40 chain is made from a steel more prone to abrasion than G70. However if you have lost too much steel then is a good time to consider G70 - but you will need a new gypsy.
Chain life, of any quality is about 4 years before it needs to be regalvanised. If you are a live aboard 4 years is well 4 years. If you sail weekends 4 years worth of anchoring is almost - for ever. If you don't look after your chain its life will be shorter.
The quality of the steel from which the chain is made, high tensile chain is harder and more abrasion resistant - but the steel is not being abraded until the galvanised coating is lost and if you regalvanise as soon as the chain starts to rust/corrode you do not abrade any of the base steel at all.
The big problem with re-galvanising is finding someone to actually do it and cleaning the paint marks off that you applied as markers. You cannot galvanise painted steel and if you are regalvanising you really need to get all the paint off - or you will have corroding length marks
You only need to regalvanise 'more often' if the galvanising is thin or poor. Read Vyv Cox on galvanising of chain and use his gal adhesion test.
Regalvanising of HT steel is perfectly safe. The steel strength before galvanising will be the same as the strength after a re-galvanising. I tested this and it is correct, Peerless (America's biggest chain maker) say the same thing.
The key to life of chain is looking after it. Leave it in a dank chain locker, surrounded by seawater soaked ropes and the whole lot covered in acidic muds - your chain life will be short. Clean your chain with sea water when you retrieve and every time you wash the decks with freshwater you swill out the locker and rinse the chain with fresh water - your chain will reward you. Keep a good airciricualtion in the locker to allow it and the chain to dry out. If its raining open the locker and let rainwater help you rinse the chain. Keep drain holes open.
Jonathan
Sea Change
Well-known member
Re-galvanising isn't possible in the Caribbean, so I'm just going to get what life I can put off this chain and then replace- unless I'm heading home by that point.
NormanS
Well-known member
Unfortunately those who normally anchor, don't normally have access to fresh water for washing chain.
Neeves
Well-known member
Many people visit a marina to re-fuel and stock up - some take advantage of the fresh water hose to wash the decks of salt - few think to swill out the chain locker. For those who refuel with jerry cans from the dinghy - rain is the substitute (some people even manage to operate rain harvesting systems). Its a use for the water from the laundry - tip it over the chain in the locker - not straight into the sea. Those big fancy catamarans now often house a full sized washing machine - imagine what happens to the waste water (made at cost using a de-salinator)....... wasted.
Its the height of summer here in Oz - this week the forecast is for 6 days of, heavy, rain rain and one day of sunshine - its still 'T' shirt weather but wet.
The motivation is increasing the life of the chain - where there is a will there is a way. If this is not sufficient motivation - then don't complain when the galvanising on your chain does not last 1,400 nights - or more.
Its really not difficult and seems part of a sensible, if novel, regime - but easy to make excuses rather than use the imagination.
Jonathan
Sea Change
Well-known member
It's kind of hard to wash the chain when it spends 90% of the time in the sea.
Neeves
Well-known member
Ah
....!!! If it spends all that time in the sea there will be no signs of corrosion - it will wear off as it forms.
There was me fondly thinking that those of you in the Caribbean spent time exploring the islands. Another dream tarnished.
I have a vague idea that salt rich damp chain stored in a warm oxygen rich locker will corrode more quickly than a chain on the seabed.
One of the quickest ways to remove galvanising is to anchor in nutrient rich muds. The muds host anaerobic organisms that allow the development of acidic muds that does not abrade gal but dissolves it. There are apocryphal tales of chains coming up clean of gal - just bright shiny metal - particularly off Asian rivers after lengthy periods at anchor.
I have not had the motivation to test any of this except that chain stored in a damp, salt concentrated locker corrodes faster than a chain in a clean locker.
Jonathan
Sea Change
Well-known member
I don't understand this comment. Yes, we explore the islands. By dinghy, by foot, by bus, by hired car. Doesn't change the fact that we are at anchor.
Interesting. Our chain was pretty shiny until we anchored in Addaia, Menorca. Never been the same since.
Of course it's really just the first ~20m or so which is bad but you've generally got at least that much chain out in any anchorage so it never gets a chance. And yes it's been end-for-ended.
NormanS
Well-known member
We are often anchored in peaty (acidic) mud. It is what it is. Yes, the chain turns black, so much so that the galvanisers thought that it had been painted, and insisted on grit blasting.
Note to self: next time before galvanizing, anchor on sand for a while.
Note to self: next time before galvanizing, anchor on sand for a while.
zoidberg
Well-known member
I'm persuaded of the merits of upsizing the Grade of my anchor chain while downsizing its Size and Weight - as per Jon Neeves' recommendations.
I've been hunting for 6mm or 7mm in Grade 70 or Grade 80 - but galvanised against salt water corrosion. Without much success.
Neither Jimmy Green nor William Hackett nor S3I were able to help. In fact the 'friendly technical team' I phoned at both the latter could merely read out the same words as were on their web pages - which I was already looking at. They couldn't tell me the nature of the 'finish' at all. So yes, 'friendly'.... but 'technical', no.
They each were quite happy to recommend shiny stainless steel chain, despite my stated equirements.
The concept of 'chocolate teapots' came to mind.....
I've been hunting for 6mm or 7mm in Grade 70 or Grade 80 - but galvanised against salt water corrosion. Without much success.
Neither Jimmy Green nor William Hackett nor S3I were able to help. In fact the 'friendly technical team' I phoned at both the latter could merely read out the same words as were on their web pages - which I was already looking at. They couldn't tell me the nature of the 'finish' at all. So yes, 'friendly'.... but 'technical', no.
They each were quite happy to recommend shiny stainless steel chain, despite my stated equirements.
The concept of 'chocolate teapots' came to mind.....
rogerthebodger
Well-known member
Grade 80 chain is obtain used for load lifting and must be retired after so long.
You may get some from hoist / crane service compainers.
You could join then lengths together then get it galvanised for your specification.
You may get some from hoist / crane service compainers.
You could join then lengths together then get it galvanised for your specification.
Tranona
Well-known member
For your size boat Lofrans G40 6mm would be more than adequate. That is what I have on my GH (31' and over 5 tonnes). Maybe a bit on the light side but I bought the boat with a recently fitted Lofrans windlass and chain (and a 20kg copy CQR!) and for my use I found it difficult to justify the expense of changing chain and gypsy so fitted an Epsilon 10kg. If I were going offshore cruising then my decision would likely have been different.
As Jonathan says it is perhaps more important that shackles are appropriate to the chain so there are no weak links in the system.
zoidberg
Well-known member
It's probable I'M the weak link in the system...!
It is hoped ( and not just by myself! ) that I'll go off offshore cruising. That's not an issue, but it is my inshore anchoring I'm concerned about.
