An interesting Incident on the Medway. "Get Orf My Foreshore ." ?

[oldgit]

Moored with few club boats at the end of Stangate Creek on Sunday around LW.
A small dinghy from a local yacht club based at Lower Halstow was observed approaching and landing on the exposed foreshore indicated by the arrow .
The couple in the dinghy then walked up the beach with small dog.
A Black four wheel drive pickup drove along the sea wall towards where the couple had stopped .
The driver of the pickup got out , put something down on the grass next to the vehicle ,then walked down the sea wall and addressed them.
After some discussion, the couple then returned to their dinghy and left.
Being a nosy bunch, we hailed them and asked what had gone on.
The dinghy skipper , a middle aged chap was out fishing with his girl friend and had landed to allow the dog a quick wee.
He explained the driver had told him to get off the beach as it was private property.
After the event, was suggested by a couple of folks in our group with much better eyesight than me, that item laid on the grass was firearm of some decscription, most probably a rifle or shotgun.

Map courtesy of VMH.

 

[James_Calvert]

This spot is immediately adjacent to a National trail: the Saxon Shore way.

A shame if landing there is forbidden

 

[Boo2]

I'm curious to know what the commercial value and use is of land like that ? I see from Google Earth that there are what looks like agricultural building just E of Chetney Hil, can anyone say what use would be made of them ?

Boo2

 

[oldgit]

" Think" land is either owned by the RSPB or was purchased a private wild fowling" conservation " association aka a wild fowl shooting club.


Surely anybody has the right to access beaches ?
As clear as mud.


Worth a quick read,
Troubled Waters? Rights of access to the foreshore - Brecher

 

[tony_lavelle]

The landowners of Chetney Marshes are notoriously unfriendly to anyone landing there. The Kent Wildfowlers own Burntwick Island on the other side of Stangate Creek.

 

[Keith 66]

Correction, Kent wildfowlers do not own Burntwick island though they would very much like to! It is leased by a private syndicate who also lease Greenboro marsh on west side of Stangate Chetney Hill & Chetney marshes are i believe privately owned though some signage claims it a nature reserve, In any case it is a commercial shoot mainly partridges & wildfowl in season.
As said the landowner is notoriously unfriendly towards yachtsmen. Leaving his gun behind was sensible as he cannot be accused of threatening anyone with it!
The neighbouring farm to the South that owns Barksore marsh is also unfriendly & hates yachtsmen.
Last year no landing signs appeared on the western side of stangate at Slaughterhouse point.
To be honest as a yachtsman & wildfowler myself I find their attitude reprehensible, My club manages a similar marsh across the water in Essex & if we were to be so horrible to others we would have been history years ago.
Kent wildfowlers own Stoke marshes & control much other foreshore in the medway & Swale estuaries

 

[oldgit]

Correction, Kent wildfowlers do not own Burntwick island though they would very much like to! It is leased by a private syndicate who also lease Greenboro marsh on west side of Stangate Chetney Hill & Chetney marshes are i believe privately owned though some signage claims it a nature reserve, In any case it is a commercial shoot mainly partridges & wildfowl in season.
As said the landowner is notoriously unfriendly towards yachtsmen. Leaving his gun behind was sensible as he cannot be accused of threatening anyone with it!
The neighbouring farm to the South that owns Barksore marsh is also unfriendly & hates yachtsmen.
Last year no landing signs appeared on the western side of stangate at Slaughterhouse point.
To be honest as a yachtsman & wildfowler myself I find their attitude reprehensible, My club manages a similar marsh across the water in Essex & if we were to be so horrible to others we would have been history years ago.
Kent wildfowlers own Stoke marshes & control much other foreshore in the medway & Swale estuaries

Thanks for explaing the situation.
The landowner did act in a proper manner in the circumstances, although why he took the item out of the vehicle in the first place would be interesting.
He was proceeded along the top of the sea wall by a ATV who possibly first spotted the "trespassers" walking on the foreshore and wo probably notified the chap in the pickup truck.

 

[LittleSister]

Just out of idle interest, do they actually own the foreshore (i.e below the HW mark)?

I know in some places the creeks are privately owned but there is a right of navigation over them (e.g. a friend owns land up to the centreline of a creek in Essex), while in other places nothing below the HW mark is owned by the Crown, or sometimes some (other) ancient aristocratic estate.

 

[oldgit]

A real can of worms by all accounts, cases that do make it to court end up with judges merely quoting prior judgements.
Needs sorting from the top and unlikely to happen ?
Scuttlebutt that 50% of the land " aquired "from the locals during the Norman Conquest is still in the hands of Williams mates and relatives, 1000 years later.

Quis Habemus Servamus
What we have we keep ! (Terry Pratchett)

 

[Keith 66]

^^^^ This, Foreshore law is arcane in the extreme, There is a book "Halls history of the foreshore" That delves into this subject, it was online at some point & is heavy going!

 

[tony_lavelle]

Correction, Kent wildfowlers do not own Burntwick island though they would very much like to! It is leased by a private syndicate who also lease Greenboro marsh on west side of Stangate Chetney Hill & Chetney marshes are i believe privately owned though some signage claims it a nature reserve, In any case it is a commercial shoot mainly partridges & wildfowl in season.
As said the landowner is notoriously unfriendly towards yachtsmen. Leaving his gun behind was sensible as he cannot be accused of threatening anyone with it!
The neighbouring farm to the South that owns Barksore marsh is also unfriendly & hates yachtsmen.
Last year no landing signs appeared on the western side of stangate at Slaughterhouse point.
To be honest as a yachtsman & wildfowler myself I find their attitude reprehensible, My club manages a similar marsh across the water in Essex & if we were to be so horrible to others we would have been history years ago.
Kent wildfowlers own Stoke marshes & control much other foreshore in the medway & Swale estuaries

Thanks for the correction. What does own Burntwick Island then? There are signs erected which I thought were by Kent Wildfowlers

 

[Minerva]

The English land access rights really do seem to be quite arcane and frankly rubbish for the vast majority of the population.

 

[penberth3]

The English land access rights really do seem to be quite arcane and frankly rubbish for the vast majority of the population.

Are you on a different planet? Seen the news recently, e.g. what morons can do with disposable BBQ's?

 

[Keith 66]

Thanks for the correction. What does own Burntwick Island then? There are signs erected which I thought were by Kent Wildfowlers

I was told some years ago that burntwick island was still owned by one of the brick companies as was much of the foreshore of the medway & it was on a long lease to a private shooting syndicate.
Rspb put banners up on east side discouraging landing but that may be wishful thinking on their part, who knows.

As to upper end of Stangate we just got back to Benfleet from a few days over there, Took the dog ashore for a constitutional at Slaughterhouse point & i was actually buzzed by a light aircraft, very small high wing monoplane, the pilot flew round me very low at no more than 30ft altitude & waved me towards my dinghy. I waved back then ignored him. Plane flew off towards Lower Halstow.

Though i do see Penberth 3's point & agree with it to some degree I find the zealous no landing everywhere a right pain.
Perhaps the landowner might like to see some photos of the 5 large sacks of rubbish & plastic my wife & i collected of those marshes last year, Dont see many people doing that, & we found a lot of empty shell cases too.

 

[BassMan9]

I was accosted by this same angry farmer at Medway Marshes and I filed a report with the police due to his aggressive and threatening behaviour.

I was fishing, having accessed the shoreline from the public footpath that runs next to the sea wall, and was told “fishing isn’t allowed here”, “there’s no fish around here” and “it’s a protected areas”, all of which is not true. It is excellent sea bass fishing territory, fishing on the North bank of the River Medway is not permitted but fishing around Medway Marshes / Stangate Creek is legit. When the angry farmer in the black Nissan pickup told me to move on, I did, then I checked the regulations to confirm that fishing was allowed on the south side so I carried on fishing then 60mins later he reappeared swearing and threatening me like an angry nutter. I left then immediately reported him the the police who seem to have done nothing about him.

If anyone else has an equally unpleasant experience with the irate farmer from Medway Marshes I’d encourage you to report him the the police.

 

[BassMan9]

Chetney Marshes I meant to say… Mr Angry lives next to Chetney Hill in Chetney Marshes and he’s even blocked the public footpath that runs through his farm (look at the footpaths on OS maps).

 

[slowboat]

I always understood that there was a rubbish issue with BBQ’s and people wandering around what was a working farm many years ago that started this situation off. Anyway what some see a selfish control by the land owners preserves the unspoiled nature of the area. It’s not exactly miles of golden sands is it…..

 

[oldgit]

I was accosted by this same angry farmer at Medway Marshes and I filed a report with the police due to his aggressive and threatening behaviour.

I was fishing, having accessed the shoreline from the public footpath that runs next to the sea wall, and was told “fishing isn’t allowed here”, “there’s no fish around here” and “it’s a protected areas”, all of which is not true. It is excellent sea bass fishing territory, fishing on the North bank of the River Medway is not permitted but fishing around Medway Marshes / Stangate Creek is legit. When the angry farmer in the black Nissan pickup told me to move on, I did, then I checked the regulations to confirm that fishing was allowed on the south side so I carried on fishing then 60mins later he reappeared swearing and threatening me like an angry nutter. I left then immediately reported him the the police who seem to have done nothing about him.

If anyone else has an equally unpleasant experience with the irate farmer from Medway Marshes I’d encourage you to report him the the police.

Thanks for taking the trouble to report this.
Not sure its a farmer but more likely to be a manager of some sort.
Not sure what can be done about the chaps attitude except call it out when it happens.
Wonder just how many unreported events of this nature there have been.

 

[Bouba]

I agree about reporting a man brandishing a firearm threatening you to the police. It sounds like he calculated his actions to let you know he was armed and could/would quickly access his firearm. It doesn’t matter how much time has passed...get them to lodge a complaint

 

[Sandydog2]

I agree about reporting a man brandishing a firearm threatening you to the police. It sounds like he calculated his actions to let you know he was armed and could/would quickly access his firearm. It doesn’t matter how much time has passed...get them to lodge a complaint

He put it down on the grass, apparently. Hardly 'brandishing a firearm'. Of course he wasn't threatening to use it, he would have lost his licence. He sounds an unpleasant character but this is ridiculous.

If he has blocked a public footpath I would certainly report him for that.