Americas Cup - Wow!!!

[dom]

Ineos confirmed as Challenger of Record. Some punchy new restrictions:

Ineos Team UK confirmed as challenger of record at next America's Cup - what that means for British hopes

 

[Tradewinds]

Ineos confirmed as Challenger of Record. Some punchy new restrictions:

Ineos Team UK confirmed as challenger of record at next America's Cup - what that means for British hopes

Behind a paywall. Can you give an indication what the "punchy new restrictions" are?

 

[dom]

Behind a paywall. Can you give an indication what the "punchy new restrictions" are?

Will do a.m.

 

[Kukri]

no paywall - Yachting World:

British team confirmed as Challenger of Record for 37th America's Cup - Yachting World

 

[smert]

CHALLENGE ACCEPTED

Jimmy Spithill might have a problem next time round!

 

[Kukri]

CHALLENGE ACCEPTED

Jimmy Spithill might have a problem next time round!

My son and I were trying to calculate that and came to the opposite conclusion - that it is framed to accommodate Spithill’s presence in the Luna Rossa Prada Pirelli team, but to stop other hot shots from switching horses in return for more money, thus keeping the costs down a bit.

 

[bedouin]

So it looks as if they are slipping in a one off head to head while still planning a more conventional series for AC38. A clever move by the 2 teams - gives them both one more boat and presumably (and more importantly) more foils before heading into the AC38 where presumably costs will be held down even more.

Not sure if the nationality rule is just for AC37 or expected to be in place for AC38 - I am not sure I approve. I guess it is just AC37 at this stage.

Interesting question for the likes of Prada - do they keep spending money now when they have no restrictions developing their boat - second guessing the rule changes for AC38.

 

[TLouth7]

Where is everyone seeing this news about a possible one on one race?

 

[awol]

American Magic appeared on Craig's List if anyone feels like joining in!

 

[bedouin]

Where is everyone seeing this news about a possible one on one race?

Just rumours at this stage but fairly widespread so certainly under consideration

America’s Cup for the Solent in 2022?

The fact that the recent announcement covers two series would support that they are considering that for an option. No way could a new challenger be competitive in AC37 so that is practically limited to the same 4 teams we have just seen.

 

[bdh198]

Just rumours at this stage but fairly widespread so certainly under consideration

America’s Cup for the Solent in 2022?

The fact that the recent announcement covers two series would support that they are considering that for an option. No way could a new challenger be competitive in AC37 so that is practically limited to the same 4 teams we have just seen.

Having read Jack Griffin’s speculation as to how it might work, my initial reaction echos what Flaming has said on another thread:

Bit of a dick move though, in my opinion. Shutting the other teams out, especially the team that comprehensively beat Ineos in the Prada cup.... I mean, they'll claim that it's just a "bonus" series as it won't delay or change the next multi challenger event in terms of boat class etc, and the odds are that NZ will be the defender again anyway... But.... Not a good look I think.
And would, I think, devalue the "first British winner" tag should they manage it.

If it happens it’ll be a pretty meaningless challenge event in 2022, and would be an embarrassing way for a UK yacht club to finally “win” the cup after 171 years if the only way they can do it is to have a closed challenge excluding other potential challengers like Luna Rossa or American Magic.

 

[bedouin]

Having read Jack Griffin’s speculation as to how it might work, my initial reaction echos what Flaming has said on another thread:


If it happens it’ll be a pretty meaningless challenge event in 2022, and would be an embarrassing way for a UK yacht club to finally “win” the cup after 171 years if the only way they can do it is to have a closed challenge excluding other potential challengers like Luna Rossa or American Magic.

I don't entirely agree - in order to win you have to beat the current champion and that is TNZ again. It is clear that they are aiming towards a multi-challenger event in say 2024, which is about as often as it happens now. Putting a 1-1 race in before them doesn't really impact that very much.

The only team that might be disadvantaged is LR (I am not sure we will see American Magic again) and they didn't really make any friends with their antics in recent weeks.

 

[Kukri]

If LR think that they might be disadvantaged, they will be off to the New York Supreme Court faster than you can say “Prada”! This is the America’s Cup! But is there anything to say that they cannot join in?

 

[bedouin]

If LR think that they might be disadvantaged, they will be off to the New York Supreme Court faster than you can say “Prada”! This is the America’s Cup! But is there anything to say that they cannot join in?

There are no grounds to go to the court. Deed of gift is one challenger against the defender - the challenge is made and accepted and everything else is just between the challenger and defender.

 

[Resolution]

Having read Jack Griffin’s speculation as to how it might work, my initial reaction echos what Flaming has said on another thread:


If it happens it’ll be a pretty meaningless challenge event in 2022, and would be an embarrassing way for a UK yacht club to finally “win” the cup after 171 years if the only way they can do it is to have a closed challenge excluding other potential challengers like Luna Rossa or American Magic.

Have to say that I agree with this. Whatever happened to “best of the best”?

 

[bdh198]

I don't entirely agree - in order to win you have to beat the current champion and that is TNZ again. It is clear that they are aiming towards a multi-challenger event in say 2024, which is about as often as it happens now. Putting a 1-1 race in before them doesn't really impact that very much.

The only team that might be disadvantaged is LR (I am not sure we will see American Magic again) and they didn't really make any friends with their antics in recent weeks.

I think the problem I have it that it creates two very different kinds of competition to compete for the AC. One where the challenger is the best team from an open challenger selection series, and one where the only challenger is the CoR. The winner of the former is the best team in the world challenging for the cup. The latter potentially excludes a better team from competing and by doing so devalues the achievement of the challenging team if they go on to win the cup.

Over the years, the challenger series has become an established part of the AC, and it seems it is clearly the intention to have an open challenger series again in the future. If the only way a UK club can win the cup is by excluding any other challengers from competing then it’s not going to be a comparable achievement to those teams that have won having proved themselves the strongest of all the competition.

At the end of the day, I have no problem with INEOS and ETNZ buzzing round the Solent or even chasing each other round the Isle of Wight next year. I just don’t want them to call it an America’s Cup, because by excluding other challengers it won’t be the same competition as it was in 2021 or will be in 2024.

 

[bedouin]

I think the problem I have it that it creates two very different kinds of competition to compete for the AC. One where the challenger is the best team from an open challenger selection series, and one where the only challenger is the CoR. The winner of the former is the best team in the world challenging for the cup. The latter potentially excludes a better team from competing and by doing so devalues the achievement of the challenging team if they go on to win the cup.

Over the years, the challenger series has become an established part of the AC, and it seems it is clearly the intention to have an open challenger series again in the future. If the only way a UK club can win the cup is by excluding any other challengers from competing then it’s not going to be a comparable achievement to those teams that have won having proved themselves the strongest of all the competition.

At the end of the day, I have no problem with INEOS and ETNZ buzzing round the Solent or even chasing each other round the Isle of Wight next year. I just don’t want them to call it an America’s Cup, because by excluding other challengers it won’t be the same competition as it was in 2021 or will be in 2024.

But the AC is a boat against boat match race and the vast majority of AC races have been that way - the most recently only in 2010. If they hold another challenger series in 2024 anyway then no one is disadvantaged by slipping in a one-off

 

[Kukri]

There are no grounds to go to the court. Deed of gift is one challenger against the defender - the challenge is made and accepted and everything else is just between the challenger and defender.

“Ya think?”?

 

[bedouin]

“Ya think?”?

I do.

Once there is a challenger of record then everything is between them and the defender. The only possible argument would be about them taking too long to settle it and hence preventing anyone else challenging.

Furthermore if LR want to be allowed to compete in the next series they perhaps need to keep their heads down a bit. They didn't make many friends with their over legalistic approach this time around

 

[Kukri]

Just a few years ago, Emirates Team New Zealand and Luna Rossa were best buddies, fighting against the other four teams because they wanted to resist moves to reduce the cost of the contest by going to smaller catamarans. LR walked out of the competition when they were ignored. Now ETNZ and Ineos are best mates and LR are in the cold.

It’s the America’s Cup!