Americas Cup - INEOS Britannia splits from Ben Ainslie

I have to say that I'm quite surprised. Just at the point where Ben is starting to get that he shouldn't be on the boat any more, and after all the years of time and effort that he's put into this project.
 
I am not up to speed on the arcane rules of the America's Cup but presumably the RYS is the official Challenger and was backing Sir Ben. If they decide to stick with Sir Ben (can they change??) then Sir Ben/Athena need a backer pretty quick. But could RYS change to INEOS? Money talks after all.
 
Bobc said:
I have to say that I'm quite surprised. Just at the point where Ben is starting to get that he shouldn't be on the boat any more, and after all the years of time and effort that he's put into this project.
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I imagine he has received adequate recompense for his "time and effort". Did he get the asking price of £950,000 for his yacht Rita?
 
Hermit said:
I am not up to speed on the arcane rules of the America's Cup but presumably the RYS is the official Challenger and was backing Sir Ben. If they decide to stick with Sir Ben (can they change??) then Sir Ben/Athena need a backer pretty quick. But could RYS change to INEOS? Money talks after all.
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As it stands the Challenger is the RYS, represented (my italics) by INEOS Team Britannia.

Right now we have a team with sailors and no designers or funding (Athena) and a team with piles of money, designers, tech backing etc and no sailors (INEOS). It’s pretty bad for the chances of a British team having any success. The best thing would be that the frackers pull out altogether to be replaced by another cash source which doesn’t try to meddle with the running of the team, and Ainslie and the sailors rejoin with Ainslie taking a skipper role OR a management role. There is no way he has lost his sailing skills but I think that taking both roles is just too much (madness even).

Excellent summary of the situation by Richard Gladwell here: America's Cup: Ainslie firing sparks AC's War of the Roses
 
MikeBz said:
Sailing an AC37 is nothing like sail in a Moth either. The best sailors have very transferable skills.
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It is a hell of a lot more like sailing an Moth than a very slow heavy Finn.

They key to success in a foiling boat is to keep it foiling all the time. You learn that in a Moth. You don't learn it in a Finn.

The are many skills which do transfer. However foiling skills take time to learn and a lot of time to master and are a significant part of what you need in a fast AC37 driver.
 
westernman said:
It is a hell of a lot more like sailing an Moth than a very slow heavy Finn.

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Ben hasn’t been sailing a Finn for decades - he has been sailing supper fast foiling AC boats since they first came on the scene, and in SailGP, the most competitive sailing in the world today

So references to Finn vs Moth etc are completely irrelevant.

Like everybody he gets older, so probably wouldn’t be driver (the current term) of a future AC entry either way.

Be interesting to see which sailors follow the money to INEOS? Surely they must have key people signed or nearly so to take the risk.
 
dunedin said:
Be interesting to see which sailors follow the money to INEOS? Surely they must have key people signed or nearly so to take the risk.
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I am not sure that it matters to Ineos if any sailors move across or not. They probably have 3 years before the next cup, so if I was them I would do trials in the next six months of various people in the AC75 simulators to try and find the best candidates for helmsman / trimmers to train up, with their contacts within F1 this should include trialling some of the young motor racers who aren't quite going to get into F1 and possibly some of the top rally drivers as well as the skillset for sailing the AC75 is much closer to motor sport than dinghy sailing.
 
westernman said:
It is a hell of a lot more like sailing an Moth than a very slow heavy Finn.

They key to success in a foiling boat is to keep it foiling all the time. You learn that in a Moth. You don't learn it in a Finn.

The are many skills which do transfer. However foiling skills take time to learn and a lot of time to master and are a significant part of what you need in a fast AC37 driver.
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He hasn’t sailed a Finn for 12 years. It’s just irrelevant. Peter Burling won his medals in the 49er, he adapted to foiling very quickly. The foil configuration and dynamics of the AC37 are completely different from a Moth, not to mention that one weighs <37kg vs >6000kg, and the fact that one is a singlehander the other is crewed with a flight controller etc etc. A Moth sailor is not a magic bullet in that scenario.

[Edit] my last contribution on the subject - since his last gold medal BA has sailed in 4 foiling AC campaigns and several SailGP (foiling again) seasons. 1 AC on the winning boat (although my belief is that the extraordinary turnaround in Oracle’s fortunes was down to the boat being massively improved, AC is and always has been a predominantly a design/development contest) and 3 as skipper/helmsman, all in foiling boats. That’s a vast amount of relevant experience. Chucking that out the window is not a sign of good management.
 
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There's a lot to this, and a lot that doesn't currently make a lot of sense to the outsider.

Consider the following...

1. The America's cup, in its deed, is a challenge between yacht clubs, not teams. So it is not INEOS, or Ainslie, that has agreed to act as challenger of record, but the RYS.
2. In the last cup "Athena Racing" was the team contracted by the RYS to challenge for the cup. Athena racing is owned by Ben Ainslie. Athena then did a deal that allowed INEOS naming rights in return for a boat load of cash.
3. Therefore, without knowing the ins and outs of the various contracts between Athena, Ineos and Mercedes, it is not possible for the outsider right now to judge who has the rights to the IP from the last cup, and therefore form an opinion on who is most likely to be able to put together a credible challenge for the next cup.
4. Worth remembering that the RYS is a yacht club for people who aren't short of a million or two, and it's quite possible that they might not, as a group, take all that kindly to the way that Radcliffe has behaved. Especially when Sir Ben Ainslie is himself a member.
5. All that said, there is no particular reason why both INEOS and Athena could challenge, and it would be up to the RYS who they chose as challenger of record.

But as an aside. I'm very happy to have a good excuse to return to disliking Ratcliffe on principal.
 
flaming said:
But as an aside. I'm very happy to have a good excuse to return to disliking Ratcliffe on principal.
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I am happy to join you there. Was very disappointed when BAR was replaced with INEOS. Whilst a fully understand the tons of cash required, the way INEOS and Ratcliffe make their money is not something I will ever feel comfortable with.
 
Daydream believer said:
What is to stop another club supporting a challenger? Does not have to be only the RYS. We could have 2 could we not.
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Absolutely nothing. And yes, there's absolutely nothing stopping the UK, or any nation, from having multiple challengers. It has in fact happened in the past.

But remember that as it stands the RYS is the Challenger of record. That's the one that negotiates with the defender about the rules of the next cup on behalf of all the challengers. That brings certain advantages in getting at least some say into rule changes etc, and is generally considered to be a big advantage.
As long at the RYS continue, nobody else can now challenge for the cup as a new CoR until that challenge has been sailed. It would take the RYS withdrawing their challenge to open the door to a new CoR.
 
Back in the day when a Scotsman was winning the America's Cup on a regular basis, Sir Thomas Lipton, despite a close relationship with the King, had to present his challenges under the Royal Ulster banner as it was not until shortly before his death he was allowed into the RYS. As far as I know Sir J. Ratcliffe is not (yet) a member of the RYS - is he allowed to make an entry under their name?
 
awol said:
Back in the day when a Scotsman was winning the America's Cup on a regular basis, Sir Thomas Lipton, despite a close relationship with the King, had to present his challenges under the Royal Ulster banner as it was not until shortly before his death he was allowed into the RYS. As far as I know Sir J. Ratcliffe is not (yet) a member of the RYS - is he allowed to make an entry under their name?
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It is entirely up to the RYS which team, if any, they decide to appoint to challenge in their name.
 
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