Americas Cup - INEOS Britannia splits from Ben Ainslie

[oldbloke]

I have no personal knowledge in Sir James Ratcliffe and have no idea where he is situated on the saint/sinner scale. However I don't really get the dislike that Ineos suffers, especially in yachting circles. As far as I can see Ineos does the unglamorous grunt work in providing the chemicals the the modern world functions on and people with plastic boats with plastic sails are not really in a position to sneer

 

[Daydream believer]

Back in the day when a Scotsman was winning the America's Cup on a regular basis,

Where did you get that from?

 

[flaming]

I have no personal knowledge in Sir James Ratcliffe and have no idea where he is situated on the saint/sinner scale. However I don't really get the dislike that Ineos suffers, especially in yachting circles. As far as I can see Ineos does the unglamorous grunt work in providing the chemicals the the modern world functions on and people with plastic boats with plastic sails are not really in a position to sneer

Although nothing has yet come of it, the links to fracking won't go away.

And then there is of course his vocal support for the thing that shall not be named that starts with B.

 

[awol]

Where did you get that from?

Which bit? Happy to assuage your ignorance if you can be a little more specific.

 

[Daydream believer]

Which bit? Happy to assuage your ignorance if you can be a little more specific.

Well I would have thought it was obvious from the quote I extracted in my post
ie Back in the day when a Scotsman was winning the America's Cup on a regular basis,
I was only asking

 

[benjenbav]

There's a lot to this, and a lot that doesn't currently make a lot of sense to the outsider.

Consider the following...

1. The America's cup, in its deed, is a challenge between yacht clubs, not teams. So it is not INEOS, or Ainslie, that has agreed to act as challenger of record, but the RYS.
2. In the last cup "Athena Racing" was the team contracted by the RYS to challenge for the cup. Athena racing is owned by Ben Ainslie. Athena then did a deal that allowed INEOS naming rights in return for a boat load of cash.
3. Therefore, without knowing the ins and outs of the various contracts between Athena, Ineos and Mercedes, it is not possible for the outsider right now to judge who has the rights to the IP from the last cup, and therefore form an opinion on who is most likely to be able to put together a credible challenge for the next cup.
4. Worth remembering that the RYS is a yacht club for people who aren't short of a million or two, and it's quite possible that they might not, as a group, take all that kindly to the way that Radcliffe has behaved. Especially when Sir Ben Ainslie is himself a member.
5. All that said, there is no particular reason why both INEOS and Athena could challenge, and it would be up to the RYS who they chose as challenger of record.

But as an aside. I'm very happy to have a good excuse to return to disliking Ratcliffe on principal.

Sadly, the answer to all of these points is ‘money’.

Simon Barnes once wrote (in The Times) of the dispute between Sir Alex Ferguson and the Coolmore racehorse breeders that, in any dispute between millionaires and billionaires, the latter will win.

There aren’t many folk who have enough money and the willingness to throw it at an AC campaign. Ratcliffe is one. Ainslee isn’t.

Ratcliffe will get his way. If he still wants to bankroll AC38 he will either do it through the RYS or, if they don’t like the smell, through another YC. Maybe the Royal Monagesque (if there is such a thing).

Not suggesting this is how things should be; just how they are.

 

[awol]

Well I would have thought it was obvious from the quote I extracted in my post
ie Back in the day when a Scotsman was winning the America's Cup on a regular basis,

!899, 1901 and 1903 is that regular enough?

 

[PeterV]

If you meant to say Challenged for the Americas Cup, you’d have been correct. Sir Thomas Lipton didn’t win it once.

 

[awol]

If you meant to say Challenged for the Americas Cup, you’d have been correct. Sir Thomas Lipton didn’t win it once.

You may have inferred from what I posted that Sir Thomas was that winning Scotsman - alas despite his multiple attempts it was not he.

 

[doug748]

I have no personal knowledge in Sir James Ratcliffe and have no idea where he is situated on the saint/sinner scale. However I don't really get the dislike that Ineos suffers, especially in yachting circles.....

Nor me, though I am happy to report he is making a right bugger of his partial takeover of Manchester United.

He recently increased minimum ticket prices mid season to £66, including for children and OAPs. The Supporters Trust report that this means an adult member, taking one child to a game, would have to face a 100% increase to - £132

After a sustained campaign he lured Dan Ashworth from Newcastle at a reported cost of 2 - 3 million pounds and then sacked and paid him off after 5 months.

He backed Ten Hag as manager and gave him a new contract and 200 million to spend on new players. The money was largely wasted and Hag was sacked less than four months later.

The new manager has branded the team he has inherited the worst in the history of the club. They are presently below mid table and struggling.

.

 

[flaming]

Nor me, though I am happy to report he is making a right bugger of his partial takeover of Manchester United.

He recently increased minimum ticket prices mid season to £66, including for children and OAPs. The Supporters Trust report that this means an adult member, taking one child to a game, would have to face a 100% increase to - £132

After a sustained campaign he lured Dan Ashworth from Newcastle at a reported cost of 2 - 3 million pounds and then sacked and paid him off after 5 months.

He backed Ten Hag as manager and gave him a new contract and 200 million to spend on new players. The money was largely wasted and Hag was sacked less than four months later.

The new manager has branded the team he has inherited the worst in the history of the club. They are presently below mid table and struggling.

.

On the basis of that, and the drop off in form of the cycling team, you would wonder if he has the track record to bring the cup home....

 

[Daydream believer]

!899, 1901 and 1903 is that regular enough?

So who were the scotsmen then? Columbia in 1899 was owned by J. Pierpont Morgan and Edwin Dennison Morgan & they were american .as was Rockefeller with a later winner No mention of scottish birth.
Once again I ask. Where do you support the claim that SCOTTISH owners were winning the americas cup agains lipton?

 

[SaltIre]

So who were the scotsmen then? Columbia in 1899 was owned by J. Pierpont Morgan and Edwin Dennison Morgan & they were american .as was Rockefeller with a later winner No mention of scottish birth.
Once again I ask. Where do you support the claim that SCOTTISH owners were winning the americas cup agains lipton?

He didn't say the Scots were owners.

This is the story of how Scotland became involved in the challenge before the turn of the 19th century, when not only Thistle but also Sir Tommy Lipton’s yachts, all named Shamrock, vied for the prize. It also reveals the little known story of the Barr brothers from Gourock, John and Charlie.John was helmsman of Thistle as a challenger in 1897 and Charlie won the Cup in 1899 for America and successfully defended it on behalf of the New York Yacht Club in 1901, becoming the first helmsman to win the Cup three times.
The Auld Mug: The Scots and the America's Cup - Books from Scotland

 

[dunedin]

So who were the scotsmen then? Columbia in 1899 was owned by J. Pierpont Morgan and Edwin Dennison Morgan & they were american .as was Rockefeller with a later winner No mention of scottish birth.
Once again I ask. Where do you support the claim that SCOTTISH owners were winning the americas cup agains lipton?

You need to enhance your knowledge of Americas Cup history. As well as the Royal Ulster Yacht Club challenges pointed out earlier, I believe awol will have been referring you to Charlie Barr - Wikipedia

 

[awol]

He didn't say the Scots were owners.

Och, you've spoilt it! Yon little englander was biting nicely.

 

[Daydream believer]

Och, you've spoilt it! Yon little englander was biting nicely.

It was not the case of biting. I asked a question & you failed to give a clear answer.
Resorting to insults like my "ignorance" & " little englander " really show your true colours
However, I have finally weedled the information I asked for & I thank you. It could have been supplied without the animosity that you are showing. Was that really necessary?

 

[SaltIre]

It was not the case of biting. I asked a question & you failed to give a clear answer.
Resorting to insults like my "ignorance" & " little englander " really show your true colours
However, I have finally weedled the information I asked for & I thank you. It could have been supplied without the animosity that you are showing. Was that really necessary?
Does one really count a minion as winning the cup though. He would never have won without the backing of the owners. So Scottish winning the cup could be a bit of a dubious claim. Especially on an American yacht

Had Sir Ben Ainslie skippered Ineos Britannia to an Americas Cup win would you have called him a minion?

 

[Daydream believer]

Had Sir Ben Ainslie skippered Ineos Britannia to an Americas Cup win would you have called him a minion?

He did not win & was the ceo of the team

 

[SaltIre]

He did not win & was the ceo of the team

Good deflection. Top class.

 

[Daydream believer]

So let's call it quits & stop there then shall we