Americas Cup 37 about to commence

[Bobc]

They should pick LRPP as their opponent I reckon.

 

[PeterV]

That would be interesting, and give everyone else a fright!

 

[bedouin]

Great performance from INEOS - showing they have good boat speed in both light and stronger wind. Coming out of the RR they are clearly the team to beat but we mustn't get carried away. The top teams are improving each race and any of them could find another gear.

So if you are Ben who would you choose?

I think AM is probably the safest - followed by Alinghi - but there is also an argument for LRPP. At present INEOS is the faster boat so why give LRPP the time to improve - they will probably be easier to beat in the Semi than in the Final.

 

[Bobc]

Great performance from INEOS - showing they have good boat speed in both light and stronger wind. Coming out of the RR they are clearly the team to beat but we mustn't get carried away. The top teams are improving each race and any of them could find another gear.

So if you are Ben who would you choose?

I think AM is probably the safest - followed by Alinghi - but there is also an argument for LRPP. At present INEOS is the faster boat so why give LRPP the time to improve - they will probably be easier to beat in the Semi than in the Final.

Exactly that. Hit LR while you're in their heads and before they have the chance to find improvements.

 

[dunedin]

Well done INEOS GB - let’s hope they can maintain the improvement

 

[flaming]

Exactly that. Hit LR while you're in their heads and before they have the chance to find improvements.

It's certainly an interesting idea....

Has the potential for massive amounts of egg on face though.

I think that if they were still with a "normal" sponsor they would definitely not do it, so as to absolutely maximise their odds of making the final and prolonging their sponsor's exposure. With Ratcliffe behind them.... you get the impression he would view anything short of winning the cup as the same, and would want them to take the decision that offers the best route to winning the whole thing, not just making sure they make the challenger final.

 

[Ingwe]

I would be surprised if they chose to face LR next as Ineos have been gradually improving through the round robins and by the end of the Semi's should have improved a bit further still, but I doubt they have been holding back as they definitely weren't favourites at the beginning of the round robbins. Wheras LR went into the round robbins expecting to win them (and being absolutely sure they would qualify barring breaking the boat) so there is a moderate chance that they may have a better setup that they have been saving until they need it as they don't want to show their full performance to TNZ until they have to.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

I would be surprised if they chose to face LR next as Ineos have been gradually improving through the round robins and by the end of the Semi's should have improved a bit further still, but I doubt they have been holding back as they definitely weren't favourites at the beginning of the round robbins. Wheras LR went into the round robbins expecting to win them (and being absolutely sure they would qualify barring breaking the boat) so there is a moderate chance that they may have a better setup that they have been saving until they need it as they don't want to show their full performance to TNZ until they have to.

I cannot imagine that anyone is sandbagging. It would be a terrible risk to take.

 

[Ingwe]

I cannot imagine that anyone is sandbagging. It would be a terrible risk to take.

There is always an element of sandbagging in the early stages of the Louis Vitton Cup as the contenders who think they are in with a good chance of getting through to the final AC Cup match don't want the defender to know what they are fully capable of as if you brought out for example some inovative new foils in the round robbins the defender would have enough time to copy them before the match proper wheras if you can leave showing off your best setup until the LV final the defender probably doesn't have enough time to make signifficant changes to their boat.

Even if you don't have anything too innovative to bring in later in the competition it still makes sense to get through as far as you can without using your best sails and foils - yes modern sails don't degrade as quickly but if you rip one then you can't repair it and expect to still win at this level.

 

[flaming]

There is always an element of sandbagging in the early stages of the Louis Vitton Cup as the contenders who think they are in with a good chance of getting through to the final AC Cup match don't want the defender to know what they are fully capable of as if you brought out for example some inovative new foils in the round robbins the defender would have enough time to copy them before the match proper wheras if you can leave showing off your best setup until the LV final the defender probably doesn't have enough time to make signifficant changes to their boat.

Even if you don't have anything too innovative to bring in later in the competition it still makes sense to get through as far as you can without using your best sails and foils - yes modern sails don't degrade as quickly but if you rip one then you can't repair it and expect to still win at this level.

There are very strict rules on foils this time around. They are only allowed to build 4 foils in total. There's a small amount of change that is allowed in the tips, but that's pretty minor. The foils they want to use for each round have to be declared well in advance, and cannot be changed until the round is over. So it was not, for example, feasible to have different sets for different wind strengths.

Sails are different, but it's not about wear, it's about fine tuning the shape based on their analysis.

I think a lot of people concentrate on the design side and forget that even top sailors cannot just jump in and get it to go at 100%. These are such extreme boats that they will still be going through an iterative process trying modes and seeing what is fast. Most of the Ineos gains seem to have been in finding fast modes, rather than the boat being made faster with new kit.

 

[Bobc]

There are very strict rules on foils this time around. They are only allowed to build 4 foils in total. There's a small amount of change that is allowed in the tips, but that's pretty minor. The foils they want to use for each round have to be declared well in advance, and cannot be changed until the round is over. So it was not, for example, feasible to have different sets for different wind strengths.

Sails are different, but it's not about wear, it's about fine tuning the shape based on their analysis.

I think a lot of people concentrate on the design side and forget that even top sailors cannot just jump in and get it to go at 100%. These are such extreme boats that they will still be going through an iterative process trying modes and seeing what is fast. Most of the Ineos gains seem to have been in finding fast modes, rather than the boat being made faster with new kit.

Agree with all of that. Dylan especially is on a vertical learning curve.

 

[bedouin]

Interesting that Jimmy Spithill is blaming the DSQ in the last round as caused by a bug in the software that they are required to use - I wonder how many other penalties might be down to faulty software -

 

[flaming]

Interesting that Jimmy Spithill is blaming the DSQ in the last round as caused by a bug in the software that they are required to use - I wonder how many other penalties might be down to faulty software -

Spithill might be right. He's also a very canny operator who has a history of saying whatever he needs to in order to throw mud and sow the seed for future doubt. Of note is that LR filed a request for redress, which the jury threw out.

We're just reaching the point where it gets serious for the big teams.

 

[bedouin]

Spithill might be right. He's also a very canny operator who has a history of saying whatever he needs to in order to throw mud and sow the seed for future doubt. Of note is that LR filed a request for redress, which the jury threw out.

We're just reaching the point where it gets serious for the big teams.

Thrown out on a technicality - not because it wasn't true. I tend to believe him - not a lot to be gained by lying about it

 

[flaming]

Thrown out on a technicality - not because it wasn't true. I tend to believe him - not a lot to be gained by lying about it

On the contrary, there's huge amounts potentially to gain by muddying the waters.

For background, as I understand it the foil arm, hydraulic rams and the control system actuators are supplied part. But the link between the controls in the cockpit (and indeed what those controls are - button, lever, touchscreen, dial etc) is down to the teams. So saying "software fault in supplied part" is simplistic as only part of the "press button to move foil" system is supplied. If LR have a weakness in their system they have every motivation to set a precedent for a failure in a "supplied part" i.e the foil arm didn't move to null and void the race.
Didn't cost them much this time, but if the same fault costs them a race at a crucial point.... Starting the argument now that it's a supplied part is what they're trying to do.

 

[Bobc]

Bottled it then.

Took the easy route with Alinghi.

Mercedes F1 vs Red Bull F1. Now where have I seen that before?

 

[Buck Turgidson]

Perfect start and impressive speeds.

 

[Bobc]

Four down, one to go.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

INEOS through but they really don't do well in less than 10kt. LRPP traveller broke and AM took both races so tomorrow will be fun!

 

[bedouin]

INEOS said they had the wrong main up for the first race - but a couple of unnecessary penalties again today